Restrictions on wearing letters

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Gusteau

If I were in her shoes (and thank God my chapter brothers aren't so dense) I would bring up the issue at a meeting. Since the majority of the chapter seems to be against her, I would make in into an "okay, prove me wrong" scenario, and get a chapter advisor, Greek life advisor, or regional director to talk some sense into them. People love to prove that they're right, so they'll take the bait. This way you can get an outside perspective into the situation without becoming a tattletale.

Agreed. This goes above and beyond what the chapter feels is right. This is about the members of the sorority protecting its tax-exempt status.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

This is about the members of the sorority protecting its tax-exempt status.

I really need members of non-profit organizations/tax-exempt organizations to understand this.

[LucyKKG]

I think we discussed this on GC last year because I had a similar issue with my chapter. There are often protests at my alma mater (for immigrants' rights, budget cuts, workers' rights, etc.) and I felt that this wasn't an appropriate place to wear letters. Students have been arrested at protests before (none of my sisters, to my knowledge). I can totally see why your sister was concerned. Stuff happens, man!

[Alumiyum]

I think it would be appropriate for her to bring this up to her chapter council and look in to making a rule that DOES apply to this sort of situation. I can sympathize with her because I have sisters who support both extreme conservative and liberal causes and I hate extremities, period. I HAVE asked sisters to avoid wearing their letters to meetings/rallies supporting their causes of choice. Her chapter should already have a code of standards that specifies when to not wear letters (most commonly when drinking/smoking) and it would not be hard to add political rallies to the list. Good places to wear letters: volunteering in the community, class, religious organizations, etc. Bad places: Drunk fests, any place where there is illegal activity, political rallies.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

. Good places to wear letters: volunteering in the community, class, religious organizations, etc.

I disagree completely with the last one. For a sorority to be interpreted as espousing a particular religion (unless they ARE affiliated with one per their charter) is just as inappropriate as the political example.

Sorry but in this case if you do one, you definitely gotta do the other.

Also, volunteering at Planned Parenthood could be interpreted as "volunteering in the community" and not "political," and there are plenty of people out there who don't agree with some of the things PP does. Just because you're not marching up and down the street with a sign in your hand doesn't mean you're not making a political statement.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I disagree completely with the last one. For a sorority to be interpreted as espousing a particular religion (unless they ARE affiliated with one per their charter) is just as inappropriate as the political example.

Sorry but in this case if you do one, you definitely gotta do the other.

Also, volunteering at Planned Parenthood could be interpreted as "volunteering in the community" and not "political," and there are plenty of people out there who don't agree with some of the things PP does.

As long as no member of a certain religion is told they CAN'T wear their letters around their religious organization, I don't see the problem. For instance, a lot of my chapter sisters regularly attended Campus Outreach in letters. I affiliate with no religion, but I can't think of a reason why that would offend me. I'm not talking about militant groups that preach prejudice against another group or religion, but instead bible studies, campus outreach meetings, or for instance being a camp counselor at camps with religious affiliation that are moderate. I know it's POSSIBLE that someone would assume we were a Christian chapter because sisters attended CO while wearing letters, but that's probably not likely. It depends on the chapter and their campus's culture I'm sure.

IMO that's different from attending a "pro-life" stake out of an abortion clinic, or other such public and radical rallies.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It depends on the chapter and their campus's culture I'm sure.

Yes it does. The problem is the slippery slope. Some people consider their political beliefs just as important as others consider their religion, and when you tell one girl that wearing letters to the Methodist Church cookout is OK and tell another girl that wearing letters to a Ron Paul rally is forbidden...then you're going to tick someone off.

[Alumiyum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Yes it does. The problem is the slippery slope. Some people consider their political beliefs just as important as others consider their religion, and when you tell one girl that wearing letters to the Methodist Church cookout is OK and tell another girl that wearing letters to a Ron Paul rally is forbidden...then you're going to tick someone off.

Well let me put it this way...MANY sororities have religious references in ritual or ceremonies. It's hard to cut out all religious association when there are references left from the days of many of our founders. I can't see myself telling a sister she can't wear her jersey to a Campus Outreach meeting, even though you couldn't pay me to attend one. But politics are ever changing and generally speaking can get much more extreme than youth groups. (Again, I'm not talking about any religious organizations that are extreme...I don't know what you'd do about that, but I haven't had any experience with a situation like that.) Girls in sororities on my campus were frequently asked not to wear letters to meetings of a club that supports the legalization of marijuana. I'm much more likely to attend that meeting than Campus Outreach, but I can see why letters don't belong there. People probably assume that attendees are potheads. It's one thing to assume that, it's another to walk into a room and see ten XYZ shirts. What assumptions would be made there? As I see it, most religions can be boiled down to this: they encourage and help their followers to be better people. Of course, not everyone is a good follower, but the religions themselves are good things, as far as I'm concerned. I don't mind a sister showing she is religious and loves her organization by wearing her badge to church or temple or whatever.

Like I said, I'm sure the situation would vary from chapter to chapter, depending on campus culture. I went to school in the south, where not only is religion part of the ritual of many of the sororities on campus, it's just part of the community. It wouldn't be worth the fight to tell people they had to disassociate from their organization when attending religion related activities. Trust me, it would be a FIGHT. I also have friends at a school that associates directly with a Christian denomination. Obviously on their campus, their letters are directly connected to religion by default, even though none of the organizations are Christian.

[SDer]

my chapter doesn't mind

[Drolefille]

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

And I question whether the original sister objected to the concept as a whole or only because it was in regards to something she disapproved of.

[AnotherKD]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

And I question whether the original sister objected to the concept as a whole or only because it was in regards to something she disapproved of.

Well, kind of both. She originally felt a little weird seeing her letters seemingly attached to the campaign of a certain political party, and when she wondered if there was a rule about wearing letters while doing things like that, she was told that the sisters didn't mind, as long as it was for a certain political party. That is when she became more uncomfortable. The unofficial word was that the upperclassmen (and most of the sisters, anyhow) thought it was great for one, and a no-go for the other. I just think that kind of sucks. She's not someone who is okay with confrontation, so I'm not sure she knows what she will do next, if anything.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AnotherKD

She originally felt a little weird seeing her letters seemingly attached to the campaign of a certain political party, and when she wondered if there was a rule about wearing letters while doing things like that, she was told that the sisters didn't mind, as long as it was for a certain political party. That is when she became more uncomfortable.

That is absolutely effed up. I mentioned in a thread a few weeks ago about how a certain trendy restaurant around here assumes that everyone who eats there is a liberal, and there were names of drinks etc on the menu that would offend me if I was a conservative. I will never patronize it again - not because Rush Limbaugh is my BFF but because it's a classic case of "well, the liberals can talk all the shit they want about conservatives, but if Glenn Beck says this or that he must be tarred and feathered." That sort of double standard doesn't fly with me.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I think it's important that there's a difference between wearing an "XYZ supports <SOMETHING>" shirt and wearing your letters in public to events you choose to attend.

Not necessarily.

Besides -- don't undergrads have other shirts? I say save the GLO shirts for GLO functions.

[als463]

As a conservative (and sometimes I feel like the only one left), I would not feel comfortable wearing a "Phi Mu supports McCain" shirt or something along those lines. I don't feel I should place my GLO's letters along "supports ___" because, although I may support it-I have many sisters who do not.

I remember this was an issue when I was an undergrad. We had a shirt that said something along the lines of "We support the LGBT community" or "Gay Penn State" or something. On the back it listed all the organizations that supported the shirt. My GLO (as well as the GLO of EVERY organization, pretty much) was on the shirt. Don't get me wrong-I have no issues supporting the gay community but, sometimes they are very IN YOUR FACE about things that make me uncomfortable. They wave flags at homecoming that say "We Are...Gay Penn State" or have kissing contests on the stairs of Old Main. I don't care if you are gay or straight...I don't need to see you making out on a park bench...There is a time and place for everything (gay or straight). I did not appreciate my group supporting certain organizations without an actual vote being done.

[remmie_k]

I know what your friend means. There have been times when girls around here have worn their letters and been on the news for being at controversial things. People start thinking if one girl is there wearing those letters then all the girls must support it. I think you should wear your letters if you support a local politician that was part of your sorority but only if you want to. In all fairness if a girl you shouldn't have to hide your letters because it is who you are but if people don't agree with what you support they start labeling everyone in your group as one. Sophomore year one cheerleader had been caught doing drugs so now every cheerleader must be bad and had to be tested. I don't get the no letters at bars because everyone knows you are a abc and drink but it is like saying you are two different people, one that drinks and then the other is a sweet sorority gril from next door.