Tom Delay: People Are Unemployed Because They Want To Be

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Kevin

But if you keep expanding the definition of who is not responsible for their own problems to include folks that are out of work for 6+ months, 8+ months, 12+ months, etc., then you have to admit that a lot of commonalities are going to emerge between these cases which are somehow different. Do you think there should be no cutoff? That there should be a guaranteed minimum income which should continue indefinitely?

Then you say this (the bolded). What commonalities are you suggesting are going to emerge? That these people have degrees, were working before, and were laid off or the business went under? What are the commonalities that YOU are suggesting? That these were law abiding, minding their own business, paying their own bills, and living their own lives kinda people? What is it that you are suggesting.

AGAIN have you ever been out of work 6mo, 8mo, 12mo, 18mo, etc? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THERE? IF NOT, SHUT TO THE UP!

Originally Posted by Kevin

Maybe it is simplistic. But this nation is running on credit. Expanding expenditures in these currently proposed manners without expanding income is going to impact a lot of us down the line. When your nation's number one export is debt, maybe simplistic thinking is what is needed if this less simplistic thinking of yours has led to the current situation.

Yes, it is a simplistic look to a huge problem. It's a very popularized look at a problem that has been here for some time. Then look at who is in control of the nation and begin to make some changes within your own communities to those who either understand you or feel that they can improve the current state of affairs. It's also a downgrading look at those who are in a situation that they are trying to change but with the state of the current economy, they cannot.

Originally Posted by Kevin

With my health insurance, I get to choose my risk pool and pay for the coverage voluntarily. If I don't pay my taxes because I don't want to be a part of that particular risk pool, I go to jail. I see that you're trying to correlate those two things, but private insurance and public entitlements aren't as comparable as you suggest.

You say with your health insurance, you get to choose your risk pool, well, good for you! I'm not able to do that, so sorry. I didn't ask for my set of genes, but I just got to deal with what I have been given. I don't have health insurance and the last company that I worked for they didn't have health insurance for us employees either. I didn't get to choose anything, but when I had health insurance I used it to keep myself as healthy as I could. I WANT to be able to have the choice to pay for my health insurance, but alas, I don't even have that option. Being on unemployment, I cannot afford the premiums that I would need to be able to afford that. But you need to be grateful to God that you are in a position to do so. Think about those who cannot.

Originally Posted by Kevin

Clearly, simplistically, you think society's role should be bigger, I think it should be a lot smaller. My way we can afford. Your way sinks us into a deeper and deeper hole.

O.K., to clear things up for you, this is how things were done before, if you cannot remember history, it was called Reganomics. Yes, alas, the trickle down theory. And if I do remember then, the cutbacks that were made, everything from education to drug rehab programs to mental health institiutions, left such a bad taste upon the American people that we are STILL paying for this lapse in reality now.

When those cutbacks were made and programs were slashed to the bare bones of a structure, the cost deference that emerged the government found was greater because of the need for more of the same services because what the government found was that people cannot always take care of their own because they are barely making it for themselves.

Look back on what Reganomics left for a legacy and then get real.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

AGAIN have you ever been out of work 6mo, 8mo, 12mo, 18mo, etc? HAVE YOU EVER BEEN THERE? IF NOT, SHUT TO THE UP!

So if I haven't personally experienced something, I can't talk about it? I've never been charged with a crime or been sued or been divorced, but people pay me good money to opine about that... guess I need to find a new job.

Yes, it is a simplistic look to a huge problem. It's a very popularized look at a problem that has been here for some time. Then look at who is in control of the nation and begin to make some changes within your own communities to those who either understand you or feel that they can improve the current state of affairs. It's also a downgrading look at those who are in a situation that they are trying to change but with the state of the current economy, they cannot.

Ah okay, so it's not your fault. I get that. Is there a time when at least some of the blame for this situation shifts to you? Or is it never anyone's own fault that they don't have a job?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So if I haven't personally experienced something, I can't talk about it? I've never been charged with a crime or been sued or been divorced, but people pay me good money to opine about that... guess I need to find a new job.

At the extent that you are involved this particular subject...you shouldn't.

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Kevin

So if I haven't personally experienced something, I can't talk about it? I've never been charged with a crime or been sued or been divorced, but people pay me good money to opine about that... guess I need to find a new job.

Ah okay, so it's not your fault. I get that. Is there a time when at least some of the blame for this situation shifts to you? Or is it never anyone's own fault that they don't have a job?

In a simple answer, NO, NO, NO!

But if you were to ACT like a human, you can EMPATHIZE with others that are in this situation. You can discuss how You could potentially help them. You can help to try and understand their situation!

But in order to do this, YOU HAVE TO GET OUT OF YOUR OWN LITTLE WORLD AND JOIN THE REST OF US! You are going to have to see BEYOND what your world has limited you too, and see that the world goes beyond that scope, because right now, it's a very, very, very limited scope that you're looking through and at.

When you approach someone who is unemployed as though they are a pathetic peon in your view, then you will get a rash of abuse hurtled at you with the force of a javelin coming towards your head.

You have to learn how to be human and just learn how to empathize with a person, not persecute(?) them, which your posts are doing.

Now this is the first part of your question, now here's the second--

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah okay, so it's not your fault. I get that. Is there a time when at least some of the blame for this situation shifts to you? Or is it never anyone's own fault that they don't have a job?

You egotistical twit! Hell no this had NOTHING TO DO WITH ME!!!!!! So damn sorry to burst your bubble! I didn't tell my ex boss to steal 8 million dollars from Medicaid! I didn't tell her to scam the government! I didn't tell her to underpay her employees! And I damn sure didn't tell her illegal ass to stay in this country when she was supposed to have been deported in 1992!

Now tell me, Mr. Wannabe Silverplated spoon, how in the hell is this my fault? What in the hell did I have to do with her and her decisions? Where in the hell did I go wrong other than apply to work with her butt and stay there? HUH!!!!!! Where in the hell am I to blame in this? If you can answer that you're a good one!

I have been unemployed before, and yes, I did and DO take RESPONSIBILITY for myself and FOR MY ACTIONS!!!! I admit where I did and didn't go wrong. I admit what I could have done better and how I could have made a difference. IN OTHER WORDS, YES I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MYSELF AND MY ACTIONS.

But for YOU to ASSUME that I am unemployed because I a) want to be, b) this is MY FAULT, and c) I desire to remain unemployed, you are crazy stupid nuts!

You don't KNOW someone's SITUTAITON until you are in there or YOU HAVE HEARD THEM. Stop being an ASS through ASSUMING, because this time, you aren't making an ass out of me, but you're CONFIRMING THAT YOU'RE AN ASS THROUGH YOURS!

To answer your last question, you'd have to ask individual unemployed people in order to get your answer. Try just becoming a person and asking instead of your usual, ASSUMING.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

In a simple answer, NO, NO, NO!

But if you were to ACT like a human, you can EMPATHIZE with others that are in this situation. You can discuss how You could potentially help them. You can help to try and understand their situation!

So then you can stay on the dole indefinitely and it's never your fault. If that rationalization helps you sleep at night, well Godspeed.

I imagine that the majority of the unemployed were originally laid off through no fault of their own, that is obviously not something within their power. How hard they work at gaining further employment and what opportunities they choose to accept and what sorts of compromises they're willing to make are well within their power, however.

[lovespink88]

Max, congrats on your newly found internet courage so that you can now type it with an "i" and not a "1". BIG DAY!

And your new user name now makes you creepier than ever.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I can hardly come to any other conclusion though. If someone spends however many months on the dole as are currently allowed and has yet to find a job, when does the blame shift from the economy or somesuch other nebulous entity to the individual? Does it ever shift?

And let's just assume all of these "It's not their fault" premises ad arguendo. Why are their problems my problems? Why must I and other taxpayers continue to watch the money I spend in taxes go to solve their problems? Pay their bills? Bail them out? I don't think anyone could reasonably believe that the current federal fiscal irresponsibility can continue indefinitely. But I get to watch as my money is spent on this crap and then I, who will still be gainfully employed for the rest of my life, will get to bear a lot more than my fair share in paying it back. But I guess I shouldn't have a problem with that?

This is stupid. When you do your taxes, do you get a refund of all the money that you've paid out in taxes for the year? If not, why do you mind that it's being used to help people who are in need (I can agree that not everyone who receives assistance needs it for as long as they get it)? As libramunoz stated, you can't force someone to hire you. I comment all the time that companies post jobs (sometimes they stay open for months) but it seems like they never hire anyone. What are people supposed to do? Take to begging in the streets? I hope that you do stay employed for life because if you don't, I hope you'll be just as angry at your self for having to live off of our tax monies.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bosaco

There are tons of jobs in health care

Ok, like all your n-word posts weren't offensive enough.

If I hear one more person say in ANY context "there are sooooo many jobs in health care" in any context I'm gonna fucking take them out with a tube sock full of wood screws.

The LAST thing we need in this country is people who are only working in health care because that's the only thing that is available. There are enough screwups going on as it is. I'm sick of people trying to push people into this shit field.

[Little32]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Ok, like all your n-word posts weren't offensive enough.

If I hear one more person say in ANY context "there are sooooo many jobs in health care" in any context I'm gonna fucking take them out with a tube sock full of wood screws.

The LAST thing we need in this country is people who are only working in health care because that's the only thing that is available. There are enough screwups going on as it is. I'm sick of people trying to push people into this shit field.

I was wondering whether to even engage....

I have spent enough time around health care professionals in recent months to know that they are just as concerned about job security and availability as the rest of us. Belt-tightening is happening everywhere, even in the fields that have usually weathered the economic storms relatively unscathed.

And yes, absolutely, people do not need to go into healthcare unless it is a calling. Particularly not into positions that have them doing patient care. No one wins in that situation.

[33girl]

MC, how did that black one sneak in there?? Didn't the Wasp Housing Association require a photo to be included with the application?

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by 33girl

If I hear one more person say in ANY context "there are sooooo many jobs in health care" in any context I'm gonna fucking take them out with a tube sock full of wood screws.

The LAST thing we need in this country is people who are only working in health care because that's the only thing that is available. There are enough screwups going on as it is. I'm sick of people trying to push people into this shit field.

That's how I feel about people now wanting to be teachers. Do you know how many people I know who get laid off call me and say: "I just got laid off. How do I become a teacher?"

I'm nice about it, but I'm thinking, "You won't last a week."

[lovespink88]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

That's how I feel about people now wanting to be teachers. Do you know how many people I know who get laid off call me and say: "I just got laid off. How do I become a teacher?"

I'm nice about it, but I'm thinking, "You won't last a week."

A little late in replying to this post, but so true.

My boyfriend is a history/secondary education major and the job hunt is not going well for him at all.

He just went to a career fair here at school--he said last year close to 200 districts (not all from Illinois) were at the fair...this year there were 60.

[libramunoz]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I can hardly come to any other conclusion though. If someone spends however many months on the dole as are currently allowed and has yet to find a job, when does the blame shift from the economy or somesuch other nebulous entity to the individual? Does it ever shift?

And let's just assume all of these "It's not their fault" premises ad arguendo. Why are their problems my problems? Why must I and other taxpayers continue to watch the money I spend in taxes go to solve their problems? Pay their bills? Bail them out? I don't think anyone could reasonably believe that the current federal fiscal irresponsibility can continue indefinitely. But I get to watch as my money is spent on this crap and then I, who will still be gainfully employed for the rest of my life, will get to bear a lot more than my fair share in paying it back. But I guess I shouldn't have a problem with that?

I'm just gonna start here with YOUR statement.

I pay my OWN DAMN TAXES--what I get in unemployment DOES NOT COME FROM YOU! It comes from what I HAVE PUT INTO THE SYSTEM THROUGH MY OWN AMOUNT OF WORK!

Sorry, Kevin, you don't pay my bills-from my water to my student loans, you don't pay SHIT of mine-but if you'd like to, go right ahead! Want my address-I'll send you the bills!

You then make this weak ass argument of:"Why are their problems my problems?" Here's a clue for you Kevin, MY PROBLEMS AREN'T YOUR PROBLEMS...HELL, YOU COULDN'T HANDLE THEM! If you want my problems, be my guest, but again, the minute you got them, you'd throw them right back at me and say, DDDDAAAAAYYYYYMMMMNNN, now THOSE are problems!

Now you dumbly make the statement that "I, who will st ill be gainfully employed for the rest of my life" are living in a total world of farce, or is it the World of Witchcraft, I seem to forget! Either way, they are both fictional and both full of fantasy.

Sorry, but last time I checked, your name isn't God and you control NOTHING! You cannot say when you will check out of here through death. That is something that you have NO CONTROL over! I'm so sorry to inform you of this, so just get over it and get over it quickly.
Moreover, how do you know that you will have this job for eternity? Whose to say that something won't happen 5 minutes from now and the job you have goes into the world of vanishing. It happens, and it happens on a daily basis. People who thought that they had "good jobs" are losing them left and right in this country so that people can continue to have A job period.

This is something that happens on a daily basis. For example, older workers, who tend to have higher salaries, are being offered "early retirement" or in some cases even a forced retirement. Why for cutbacks, in order to make room for new joe college grad that would definetly make less, and in order to keep their own jobs secure.
This is the real world, this is something that happens everyday. Why don't you look at some of the cases that you are representing. Cases where people are suing companies in order to keep them employed, pay back salaries for inappropriate firings, and to keep health insurance going for them when the company fired them because their health needs were appearing to "supercede" the needs of the company.

This is something that happens everyday! As it was said in the movie School Daze, WAKE UP! Stop trying to deny the fact that someone being unemployed is a) what they want, b) what they desire, c) what they look forward to, and d) is their own damn fault! It just ain't so!

Then you decide to make the statement of: "If someone spends however many months on the dole as are currently allowed and has yet to find a job, when does the blame shift from the economy or somesuch other nebulous entity to the individual? Does it ever shift?"
AGAIN I say to you, when you are unemployed, what are you supposed to do? When you have tried, tried, and tried to find and get a job, what in the hell are you supposed to do?

I can say, that yes, I was grateful when Congress extended unemployment benefits, it has helped me in a) not being on welfare for susistence and b) helped me in being able to retain some sense of oh...human value/worth by being able to PAY MY OWN BILLS.

Sorry, get the hell up out of your gilded cage and get into the real world. Step into the real world of life and let some of that shit hit you in the face. Smell what poverty can do and has done to some people. Step into the light of not having lights and not having water. Step into the reality of a homeless shelter with families, with parents that have degrees but don't have anywhere else to go. Step into displaced families that are living with each other in order to survive and help have a place to stay. Step into reality and then come back and tell me this same shit. I bet you won't because you would have gained the basic thing that you lack, HUMILITY AND EMPATHY.

I don't ask you to be sympathatic for me, I do consider myself on of the blessed ones in life. But you need to see how others consider you.

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

I pay my OWN DAMN TAXES--what I get in unemployment DOES NOT COME FROM YOU! It comes from what I HAVE PUT INTO THE SYSTEM THROUGH MY OWN AMOUNT OF WORK!

Actually, employers pay SUTA (State Unemployment Tax Act) taxes which unemployed workers draw benefits from. Employees do not pay directly into unemployment tax accounts.

But that's really neither here nor there at this point in the discussion...