Sprite Step Off

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

I was looking at the competition rules, and this struck me:

"All team members must be 18 years or over, a member in good standing of a nationally recognized service-oriented fraternity or sorority, and in good academic standing at an accredited 4 year college or university."

How is it that a NPC group met the eligibility then? I always see NPC sororities stating that they are social organizations, not service.

If that's the case, then Kappa would've been ineligible, because Kappa is a SOCIAL fraternity. FWIW, four of the five NPHC fraternities are also in the NIC, which is a collective body of social fraternities.

But the whole social/service element of NPHC orgs is another discussion in itself.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

If that's the case, then Kappa would've been ineligible, because Kappa is a SOCIAL fraternity. FWIW, four of the five NPHC fraternities are also in the NIC, which is a collective body of social fraternities.

But the whole social/service element of NPHC orgs is another discussion in itself.

I think you can safely say that all of the D9 are "service oriented" without claiming to be service organizations. It's all in the semantics. We describe ourselves (see our website) as social and service since being about service since the beginning and being founded as a professional org initially, not a social one, but we don't claim to be a service organization in the way that Gamma Sigma Sigma is for example.

Bottom line, this show was targeted to our audience and being D9 exclusively at first, as demonstrated by Sprite advertising. It wasn't until later that people started realizing that it wasn't just NPHC. Even now, some folks who haven't been following closely are shocked to find out that it wasn't just a D9 production.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Seriously though, do you have to be Greek to judge a Greek step show? Do you have to be beautiful to judge a beauty pageant. Do you have to be a singer to judge AI..., etc.

Ideally, AI judges, beauty pageant judges, and America's Best Dance Crew judges have expertise, experience, or knowledge in the subject matter. Inexperienced judges have been criticized in other realms before, as well.

Every stepshow that I respected enough to attend had Greeks and/or people who have some knowledge of stepping as judges. I'm very picky about which homecoming and other competitive shows are worth my attendance. I attend stepshows relatively rarely and wouldn't attend one where celebs were judges for the sake of celebrity---especially for "the largest national step competition ever."

Some may wonder whether all of this would've been an issue had an NPHC org won. I say, yes, it would've if people didn't think the particular NPHC org should've won. Stepping for money has always been surrrrrrrrrrious bidness.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Ideally, AI judges, beauty pageant judges, and America's Best Dance Crew judges have expertise, experience, or knowledge in the subject matter. Inexperienced judges have been criticized in other realms before, as well.

Every stepshow that I respected enough to attend had Greeks and/or people who have some knowledge of stepping as judges. I'm very picky about which homecoming and other competitive shows are worth my attendance. I attend stepshows relatively rarely and wouldn't attend one where celebs were judges for the sake of celebrity---especially for "the largest national step competition ever."

Some may wonder whether all of this would've been an issue had an NPHC org won. I say, yes, it would've if people didn't think the particular NPHC org should've won. Stepping for money has always been surrrrrrrrrrious bidness.

Exactly. Since one of the scoring categories is usually originality and/or creativity (or something like this) and you seldom attend stepshows or have no idea about what goes into stepping, how can you recognize when a theme or steps have been done by others before or are overdone? You're all excited as a judge because you think this step team just brought something new but they haven't, not even close.

[mccoyred]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I think you can safely say that all of the D9 are "service oriented" without claiming to be service organizations. It's all in the semantics. We describe ourselves (see our website) as social and service since being about service since the beginning and being founded as a professional org initially, not a social one, but we don't claim to be a service organization in the way that Gamma Sigma Sigma is for example.

Bottom line, this show was targeted to our audience and being D9 exclusively at first, as demonstrated by Sprite advertising. It wasn't until later that people started realizing that it wasn't just NPHC. Even now, some folks who haven't been following closely are shocked to find out that it wasn't just a D9 production.

Watch out. GSS is going to win next year!

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Since we're posting about it:

From what I saw, ZTA was just average based on BGLO stepping standards. The steps and overall routine were something a BGLO team would've done in the 1990s (including a Matrix theme).

The crowd was responding to the shock value of white people being able to pull it off since many people have never seen whites step (and relatively well). When I actually dissected the steps, not all of the members were that great. Overall, it was very mechanical and technical with yelling but very little of the heart and soul that would get a crowd to scream for you like that if you're an NPHC team.

Is this what they won for? If so, it is definitely shock value: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=016C4sUj5_8

Well said. This is what I was trying to articulate to some people this week. They just didn't get it. It boiled down to, "oh that's just another hatin' AKA."

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I liked them, but:

1) They were not better than the Tau Chapter AKAs.
2) Their routine was derivative of many other organization's steps.
3) The judges were not Greek.
4) The judges were by and large not experts in stepping, or in some cases, dance.

@ the part in bold: I think that was my biggest gripe with the performance.
As for your 3 and 4, I agree that this is problematic. I have a low tolerance for these types of things when they bring in celebrities to judge who really have no knowledge or experience in the particular area they are judging. Makes me question their credibility in making these decisions.

Kind of like Ellen being an AI judge. Love her to death, but I don't think she knows anything about music and singing.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Well, you do need to understand music if you're going to be giving pointers and judging people on their musical abilities.

I think it would have been helpful for them to have someone judging who knew what s/he was supposed to be looking for during the show.

Do we know for sure that the judges didn't know this? Just asking?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Exactly. Since one of the scoring categories is usually originality and/or creativity (or something like this) and you seldom attend stepshows or have no idea about what goes into stepping, how can you recognize when a theme or steps have been done by others before or are overdone? You're all excited as a judge because you think this step team just brought something new but they haven't, not even close.

But there are a whole lot of greeks who don't have a clue either. Which is why there is usually some controversary about who won even in NPHC sponsored shows.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Do we know for sure that the judges didn't know this? Just asking?

I think it's a fair assumption, with the numerous "borrowed" steps/transitions throughout the show. It looks like these judges glossed over the "creativity/originality" section.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

But there are a whole lot of greeks who don't have a clue either. Which is why there is usually some controversary about who won even in NPHC sponsored shows.

I agree; however, when it comes to the big shows (Stomp the Yard) and even the undergrad shows, those involved in organizing these shows contact the alumnae chapters to provide the judges. Usually our Basileus will do it and if she can't, she will ask someone else in our chapter. This builds up a nice "judging resume." She and others in my chapter have now judged many many shows in our area and I'm sure this is happening in other cities as well, although possibly not always (although I don't think I've ever heard of undergrads doing the judging). But I think seeking BGLO alumnae is the best way to go since there SHOULD be more maturity and honesty there but the alumnae chapters should ask members to judge that frequent stepshows and/or who have stepped themselves.

[BluPhire]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I agree; however, when it comes to the big shows (Stomp the Yard) and even the undergrad shows, those involved in organizing these shows contact the alumnae chapters to provide the judges. Usually our Basileus will do it and if she can't, she will ask someone else in our chapter. This builds up a nice "judging resume." She and others in my chapter have now judged many many shows in our area and I'm sure this is happening in other cities as well, although possibly not always (although I don't think I've ever heard of undergrads doing the judging). But I think seeking BGLO alumnae is the best way to go since there SHOULD be more maturity and honesty there but the alumnae chapters should ask members to judge that frequent stepshows and/or who have stepped themselves.

I would add on from my own personal. I get asked to judge shows because I have a resume of being in shows and judging other shows. You just don't ask anybody in the grad to judge a show because some in the org really don't know or have the experience.

Those of us that have been, especially those of us that were step masters know what to look for and what has won and lost because we are always looking for steps to institute in our routines if a frat from another region used a step or show that won (Never copy a whole show because what won for your frat in the eastern area may flop in the south.) So you see shows you see nuances, you see if the judges were hating or not.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I think you can safely say that all of the D9 are "service oriented" without claiming to be service organizations. It's all in the semantics. We describe ourselves (see our website) as social and service since being about service since the beginning and being founded as a professional org initially, not a social one, but we don't claim to be a service organization in the way that Gamma Sigma Sigma is for example.

The same argument can be made for NIC and NPC orgs as well. Theoretically, all fraternities and sororities can be service oriented, but the fact is, we are, by Internal Revenue Code, if nothing else, social fraternities and sororities.

Bottom line, this show was targeted to our audience and being D9 exclusively at first, as demonstrated by Sprite advertising. It wasn't until later that people started realizing that it wasn't just NPHC. Even now, some folks who haven't been following closely are shocked to find out that it wasn't just a D9 production.

That may well be, but nothing in the eligibility rules indicated that you did not had to be a member of an NPHC org to compete. I'm sure if that was the case, such would have been clearly indicated in the rules.