Princeton sends letter to parents regarding concerns about Greek Life

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Imus

At $45k/yr(tuition, room, and board) do you think Princeton attracts students from a wide range of socioeconomic backgrounds?

Didn't Princeton (and a couple other Ivies) match Harvard's decision to essentially offer full rides or incredible grant aid to every student? I think it did.

ETA: Princeton's financial aid packages basically eliminates financial barriers to entry: http://www.princeton.edu/admission/f...who_qualifies/

[FSUZeta]

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

If that was the case, more of Princeton's peer institutions--or more private schools as a whole--would get on that train. Most of those schools aren't really competing against Greek organizations for donation dollars the way that state schools seem to be. It's been my experience, from what I've seen of myself and friends at least, that our loyalty is to our undergraduate insitution as far as donations go, and our sororities and fraternities don't get much more than a $25-50 donation a year, if that. My friends who attended public universities tend to donate less to the school and more to the organization.

Originally Posted by KSigkid

I think Wesleyan has gotten more like this over the years - from friends I've had who've attended, they've said that Greek life, while never a major part of campus, has gotten more and more marginalized.

I always forget that Wesleyan has a Greek system. I know they had a few co-eds, but I'm not surprised at all from what I know about them.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I always forget that Wesleyan has a Greek system. I know they had a few co-eds, but I'm not surprised at all from what I know about them.

It's about the same size as the one at my undergrad (about 2-5%). Enough so that you know they're around, but not enough to have any power on campus.

Plus,from what I've heard, there have been a ton of risk management issues with the chapters that have made things even more difficult.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Plus,from what I've heard, there have been a ton of risk management issues with the chapters that have made things even more difficult.

See, if i was the administration trying to reach parents with the message of "greeks bad, other social clubs good," i would use hard numbers and stats of these risk management incidents, not "greeks exclude people and only provide social comfort."

because like greek orgs (and referring to Munchkin03), some eating clubs are pretty exclusive/selective, and others are more all-encompassing. so in that respect they go hand in hand.

[Imus]

Originally Posted by tld221

See, if i was the administration trying to reach parents with the message of "greeks bad, other social clubs good," i would use hard numbers and stats of these risk management incidents, not "greeks exclude people and only provide social comfort."

because like greek orgs (and referring to Munchkin03), some eating clubs are pretty exclusive/selective, and others are more all-encompassing. so in that respect they go hand in hand.

They probably don't use the stats because the stats don't back up their cause. Eating clubs have built in bars with tap systems, refrigerated keg rooms and probably have their share of risk management violations.

[LadySunshine]

Originally Posted by tld221

See, if i was the administration trying to reach parents with the message of "greeks bad, other social clubs good," i would use hard numbers and stats of these risk management incidents, not "greeks exclude people and only provide social comfort."

because like greek orgs (and referring to Munchkin03), some eating clubs are pretty exclusive/selective, and others are more all-encompassing. so in that respect they go hand in hand.

I believe there is a lot of misconception floating around about Princeton and Greeks. The school is not promoting a message of Greeks bad Social clubs good." The school essentially wants to marginalize and possibly eliminate both systems. The creation of a 4 year college was one step the school is taking in that direction. For the most part many of the eating clubs and certain Greek letter organizations are loosely associated with each other.
I personally think the exclusive argument is kind of inane coming from an exclusive institution but that is another story altogether.

The administration has been pressed before on the policy and the letter sent out is the closest I've seen to a formal stance from the University. Because the policy has been nebulous when GLOs first came to campus approval may have been tacit. As years went by the administration and in particular the Board of Trustees began to disapprove of Greeks and formed a decidedly non-recognition stance. By then many organizations had already been chartered or did not require the University's approval to establish a new charter. Since then, that stance has been held as a tradition. Furthermore, some groups on campus were in favor of deferred rush while others were not but then that created a scenario in which the school would recognize some groups and not others. They did not want to do that.

Bottom line some groups cared more about recognition than others. However, the administration has the perspective of all or nothing. So unless a compromise can be reached or all parties get on the same page, I don't see recognition happening soon. Moreover, since the Trustees (aka pursestrings) are behind the non-recognition and view it as a tradition, it will be very difficult to overturn.

On the topic of socio-economic representation: There is a wide range of socio-economic backgrounds at Princeton. Approximately half pay the full tuition and the other half receive some form of aid. Princeton pioneered the "no-loan" student policy in 2002. Harvard and others followed suit. Because of the no-loan policy many are able to afford Princeton and even graduate virtually debt-free. The eating clubs however are not covered by financial aid and thus students have to take out loans for the cost.

This may be one of the many reasons why some students do not pledge the NPC organizations. Many minorities already don't join eating clubs because of the prohibitively high costs so financing the cost of a sorority as well may discourage them or be viewed as an unnecessary expense. Furthermore, many students may be concerned with balancing the academic stress and sorority responsibilities. The academics are ridiculously rigorous for no apparent reason, so many students especially first generation college students and minorities focus on adjusting to the campus.

Sorry for the long post. Hope that answered many of the questions.

[Imus]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

i wonder if it in anyway has to do with a potential "conflict" of loyalty, i.e., "should i make a donation to the alma mater or to my greek organization?" Eliminate the greek organization, there is one less entity competing for the dollars.

No. If that was the case then they would try to eliminate the eating clubs too. The alumni will still give money to eating clubs.

It is more about eating clubs vs greeks. The eating clubs are basically fraternities.

[tld221]

Just read up on eating clubs - that sounds like so much fun. I see how its existence cuts into greek life - bicker clubs seem to bring money into the university and the social aspect seems to be much like what greek life offers.

But I can also see how bicker clubs can be economically/racially divisive, since it costs more than a meal plan, and may resemble an old-boy's-type network (ie "my mom/dad/sister/cousin was part of XYZ Club and so will I) that racial/economic minorities may not have access to.

Then again I know nothing about Princeton. Is there a "stereotypical" type of person who joins an eating club? It seems like its integral to campus culture and administration doesn't want that to fade/become less favorable.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by tld221

Then again I know nothing about Princeton. Is there a "stereotypical" type of person who joins an eating club? It seems like its integral to campus culture and administration doesn't want that to fade/become less favorable.

Everyone I know who went to Princeton--of all racial and socioeconomic backgrounds--joined an eating club. For some, the costs were comparable to what the campus meal plan would have cost. Some were really inclusive and accepted all types of people, while others were a bit more exclusive.

[Mooch279]

Originally Posted by ThetaPrincess24

“I think I have to go all the way back to Woodrow Wilson ... who said one
of the most important things you do at Princeton is ... encounter the
‘other,’ ” Tilghman said. “When groups form * and more often than not,
these are forming among students who feel very comfortable with each other
* you’re losing your opportunity during your first and second year at
Princeton to encounter the ‘other,’ and that’s my philosophical objection.”

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man. as for what they are quoting here, i know personally my fraternity brothers helped introduce me to things i normally wouldn't have consider doing in college (ie. SGA,student legislature and toast masters.....toast masters wasnt for me so i guess 2 out of 3 isnt bad)

i have a feeling both sides need to take a step back and look at the situation from the otherside. i think the greek life missed an oppertunity to work with the administration when they rejected the defered rush. the smart thing would have been trying it for a year or two so they could start to build some bridges with the administration.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Mooch279

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man. as for what they are quoting here, i know personally my fraternity brothers helped introduce me to things i normally wouldn't have consider doing in college (ie. SGA,student legislature and toast masters.....toast masters wasnt for me so i guess 2 out of 3 isnt bad)

i have a feeling both sides need to take a step back and look at the situation from the otherside. i think the greek life missed an oppertunity to work with the administration when they rejected the defered rush. the smart thing would have been trying it for a year or two so they could start to build some bridges with the administration.

LOL to the first part - their bad.

and co-sign on the second part - if i was within the NPC/NIC/IFC system, id advocate for the deferred rush option. I do agree that greek-interested freshmen need time to be unaffiliated college students and experience it, without the disadvantage of rushing as a sophomore or through COB (at schools where formal is the norm).

but this is outside looking in - formal rush works for where it works, dont fix something that isnt broken.

[littleowl33]

Originally Posted by Mooch279

I think the administration might want to pick someone else to quote since Woodrow Wilson was a fraternity man.

I was going to say that! He was a Phi Kappa Psi at Hopkins. Too funny that they would quote him...

[SydneyK]

I think it's funny that you average less than one post a year and yet, when you crawl out of the woodwork, we're supposed to take you seriously.

[Low C Sharp]

The academics are ridiculously rigorous for no apparent reason

You can't think of any reason for a university to be academically rigorous? For PRINCETON to be academically rigorous?

If that's not what you're looking for, don't go to Princeton. It's not like they pulled some kind of bait-and-switch where they advertise themselves as a laid-back party school and then freshmen are shocked to discover high academic standards.
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