Michael Vick and Job offer

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by als463

I stand by what I said. I'm just sick of people making things into color wars. Let's use the "Walmart Beatdown" thing that happened not too far from where I am staying. As soon as the "white" Police Officer took down the "black" old woman-with a knife, you could hear people in the background saying something about this being a race thing. Really? Sure, I think the officer may have been a little too rough but, I believe that had the old woman been "white" the same thing would have happened. Now, reverse the situation.

I'm positive that would not have happened in a low income white area with an elderly white woman. Positive.

Originally Posted by als463

If it was a black cop and a white old woman with a knife-no one would yell "racism" half as loud.

Let's pretend it was a group of Black police officers only. People may or may not have called racism on the Black cop (because despite what whites say, they know they have white privilege in almost every mixed settings) , but they may have thrown racial slurs at the Black cops, called the police in hopes of getting white police there, and/or formed a white militia to overrun the authority of the Black police officers.

ETA: Whites have a tendency to feel more empowered in the presence of the police and other "authority" figures. Blacks are often afraid of the police and have been taught to stay under the radar to avoid the attention of the police. You saw what happened in that video where the Black people were shocked but still keeping their distance and even trying to get away from the scene. The one person who stepped in was her daughter who ended up being held by the police, I believe.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by als463

Are you serious? How come everything has to turn into a race war when a minority commits a crime or does something wrong? I don't care what color Vick is...what he did was horrendous! I can tell you that if Vick was Puerto Rican, I would not be rallying for him because "the man" has got him down. I hate how people pull the race card when it seems convenient. I'll go back to the Dr. Henry Gates discussion. Had he come outside and simply given the Officer his ID card-we wouldn't be discussing "race relations" on GC.

In my personal opinion, sometimes white MALES get the short end of the stick. We are quick to judge and say that white men get everything but, last time I checked they didn't get any special considerations on college admissions applications the way that I do, as a female and a minority. The race card can be a double edged sword. Let's stop making everything about the color of a person's skin. Until we are willing to do that, racial relations will never get better.

Cosign.

[aggieAXO]

I realize there are a lot of human ills that need to be corrected in this day and age. But for the most part in MY experience many of the people that I come across create their own problems. Of course that is not always the case. These animals had NO voice. They could not get away. They were TORTURED. I hope Vick breaks his neck, piece of $hit. And for those of you upset about the protesting and want other thngs protested, why don't you get out there and do your own protesting for things you are passionate about. I really liked Philly when I visited last year but now I have just lost respect for that city. I hope the protests are large and wide. I hope that SOB gets what he deserves.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

I realize there are a lot of human ills that need to be corrected in this day and age. But for the most part in MY experience many of the people that I come across create their own problems. Of course that is not always the case. These animals had NO voice. They could not get away. They were TORTURED. I hope Vick breaks his neck, piece of $hit. And for those of you upset about the protesting and want other thngs protested, why don't you get out there and do your own protesting for things you are passionate about. I really liked Philly when I visited last year but now I have just lost respect for that city. I hope the protests are large and wide. I hope that SOB gets what he deserves.

Feel better? Great cause to be passionate about. I'm from Philly and we don't need/want you in our city. And by the way, Philly's citizens didn't actually play a role in making the decision for Vic to play for the Eagles...so much for you being mad at an entire city.

[rhoyaltempest]

And I wasn't implying that we shouldn't be passionate about all types of just causes, but that we should be JUST as passionate about human rights. And overall, we are not.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by buck1

How about cleaning up the garbage in your neighborhood.

how about stop being white trash?

[als463]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

how about stop being white trash?

WOW...RU OX Alum, come on! Why would you make such a racist remark? If you think someone is trash, which I doubt anyone on this site is really trash, why does it have to be "white" trash? Why would you even say such a thing? This has to be a joke...In another thread you said something really hateful and generally you are an awesome person. I'm hoping you are just having a bad day or someone hacked into your account. I know you can't be this rude!

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by aggieAXO

I really liked Philly when I visited last year but now I have just lost respect for that city.

Let's not forget that it wasn't the city of Philadelphia that made the decision to sign Vick. It was the Philadelphia Eages, which is a privately owned organization. I bet there are people in Philly as grossed out by this as you are. I know I certainly don't want to be implicated in the Giants' decisions!

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Nice try (by nice I mean really F***ing lame) but Ben has not been convicted or proven guilty, as Vick was. Oh and it's Roethlisberger.

It is really f***ing lame that if Vick were not black his sentence would have been entirely different. Also, OJ was never convicted or proven guilty. Guess that means you can be guilty and not be proven such.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

I'm really sick and tired of people making this comparison, because it's effing lame. Stallworth was determined to have been negligent and reckless in a one-time incidentTHAT KILLED SOMEONE! A person, you know, like a human! He did not have a history of DUI, bad driving, or other reckless behavior. It only takes driving drunk one time to KILL A PERSON! Guess Stallworth proves that. Vick, on the other hand, continued this "operation" for over two years. He didn't just run a dog-fighting ring for a month or two. NO. His "operation" went above and beyond simple dog-fighting. He killed animals who didn't "win," he set up rape racks to allow other dogs to violate each other when it wasn't appropriate, he didn't take care of the animals he had in his ownership.
The only proof that was given as to Vick being involved in the actual harming of dogs was the testimony of his co-defendants who flipped on him to get a better deal for themselves. He was convicted of and admitted to funding the dog fighting ring.

I'm not an "animal person," I didn't grow up with pets, but I do understand that when you purchase a pet in this country, you are implicitly agreeing to take care of it and not have it killed or raped when it doesn't fill the sick fantasies you and your band of thugs might have for it.
The key word here is PET. For Vick and the people who were fighting dogs these were not pets. These weren't "members of the family" or mans best friend. They're things or items. Do you get upset when toy cars are smashed into each other by children? No, because they're not important they're just things. While there is a major difference between a dog and a toy car (the dog is living) for many the dog is of almost equal importance and for some even less important. In some places the toy car is worth more than the dog. If Vick was fighting Roaches would we be talking about this? No. But a roach is an animal just like a dog is. The same way we have little regard for roaches Vick had little regard for dogs. "I didnt know people were concerned about the health and welfare of their animals" this is what Vick said in a press conference. This leads me to believe that to Vick then the dog was nothing more than a thing. He has served his sentece and paid his debt. He cannot be punished further. He served more time than many spousal abusers, rapists, killers, and other people who commit crimes against people.

Kill a person, cool. Drive drunk, OK. Carry guns, knives, and other weapons, fine. Rape a woman, no problem! Fight dogs...you're fired! Gotta love those PETA losers. Seriously, if we're going to rid the NFL of criminals how about we start with the ones who have committed crimes against people? Which amendment to the constitution was it that gave animals any rights?

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

It is really f***ing lame that if Vick were not black his sentence would have been entirely different. Also, OJ was never convicted or proven guilty. Guess that means you can be guilty and not be proven such.



Kill a person, cool. Drive drunk, OK. Carry guns, knives, and other weapons, fine. Rape a woman, no problem! Fight dogs...you're fired! Gotta love those PETA losers. Seriously, if we're going to rid the NFL of criminals how about we start with the ones who have committed crimes against people? Which amendment to the constitution was it that gave animals any rights?

Umm, it's time for the shock therapy, because you sound CRAZY. Never once did I say that those other things were okay. In fact, I think the NFL is full of thugs and lowlives; Vick is just part of the collection. It doesn't matter, though, since he probably won't last long in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not one of those people who values the lives of animals over the lives of humans. Vick, however, continued to do this for years at a time--knowing fully that it was illegal and what kind of problems he'd get into. Believe it or not, intent is factored into sentencing. Did Stallworth intend to kill an innocent person? No, but he did, which is why he was punished. Not only did Vick consent to this behavior occurring on his property, he was aware of it for years. If that's not intent, I don't know what is.

Please don't play the race card. His being black did not force him to do the stupid things he did. Playing the race card is sooo old.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Umm, it's time for the shock therapy, because you sound CRAZY. Never once did I say that those other things were okay. In fact, I think the NFL is full of thugs and lowlives; Vick is just part of the collection. It doesn't matter, though, since he probably won't last long in the NFL.

Like I said, I'm not one of those people who values the lives of animals over the lives of humans. Vick, however, continued to do this for years at a time--knowing fully that it was illegal and what kind of problems he'd get into.

Please don't play the race card. His being black did not force him to do the stupid things he did. Playing the race card is sooo old.

Last time I checked this was a message board not a card game so there is no race card to be played. My opinion remains that if Michael Vick were white his sentence would have been less stern. His being black had nothing to do with the crime. His being stupid had that covered. His being black had to do with the sentencing of the crime. If Vick were a white guy he'd been percieved a different way by the public and by the judge. Vick had the image of a young, hip-hop influenced thug. Thats how he was portrayed. It is very hard to imagine a white player in Vick's situation being portrayed that way. That image is what many judges and people cannot relate to. That image is a reason why many people still feel Vick is not changed and is not remorseful though many who know/knew him say he is changed and he has expressed remorse. If you're viewed as a thug you will recieve a harsher sentence because it is deemed necessary.

I never said YOU said them. I never said anyone said them. That is an expression of what the sentiment seems to be about Vick. It is also called *gasp* sarcasm! If you do not value the lives of dogs over the lives of men then regardless of how long Vick was doing this once he served his time there would be no need to punish him further.
Honestly from the comments that Vick made he was contributing to an illegal gambling ring. To him that was the illegal part. The thought didnt cross his mind that the dogs and their treatment would be a problem. There are very many people who arent even aware of the laws that cover animal cruelty. Until someone can find me that part of the Constitution that gives animals rights and tell me what rights they have then I cannot be upset at someone who has served his debt to society and I will not try to prevent him from moving on with his life.

[33girl]

OK, just want to say....

comparisons to rape, STD spreading, things of that nature are apples and oranges. At some point the women who were raped/befouled by VD consented to spend some time with the dude in question. These dogs did NOT have a choice to be part of a dog fighting ring. The only thing I would compare it to with humans would be a child prostitution ring.

Michael Vick did NOT need to get involved in this trash with these horrible people because he had no other way to make money - last I checked he had a rather nice income. If he's being "too" maligned, it's because he never needed to be involved in this to begin with and because he just let it go on and on, in extremely horrible ways. He wasn't a "silent partner" at all.

And I didn't say I would be protesting, I said animal rights groups would. I personally think voting with your wallet is more effective. But that doesn't change the fact that the whole city is going to suffer for the Eagles' extremely piss poor decision.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Last time I checked this was a message board not a card game so there is no race card to be played. My opinion remains that if Michael Vick were white his sentence would have been less stern.

He actually got a pretty good deal. The federal government was ready to press racketeering charges against him. If they convicted him, which I believe they would have been able to, he would have gotten a $250,000 fine and or 20 years in prison.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

OJ was never convicted or proven guilty. Guess that means you can be guilty and not be proven such.

Yes he was.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

Yes he was.

Not initially. His conviction was for another crime.