School can expel lesbian students, court rules

[AOII Angel]

Considering that not everyone believes in the bible, you can only use it as a source of morality amongst those that do believe. Others can ignore it all they want!

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Considering that not everyone believes in the bible, you can only use it as a source of morality amongst those that do believe. Others can ignore it all they want!

Agreed...the Bible is subject to interpretation.

Still have to love the fact there really is no such thing as separation between church and state.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Still have to love the fact there really is no such thing as separation between church and state.

What do you mean by this? I'll admit, I haven't read the entire thread (I'm sure you can guess why) but wasn't the school a private catholic school?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

What do you mean by this? I'll admit, I haven't read the entire thread (I'm sure you can guess why) but wasn't the school a private catholic school?

That simply no matter how much the US tries to separate law and morality,(religion) some of what these types of decisions are based on what our moral standards are.


That is just my personal belief.

Think...what is law based on anyway? To some degree, laws are based on whatever the moral code of that time just so happens to be.

When you think about it, 30 or 40 years ago, there simply would not have been a case, they would have been expelled and that would have been the end of it.

100 to 200 years ago, they may have been killed and it would have been justified.



I sometimes think that it's almost impossible to not be biased one way or another on legal issues where morality, religion, and people's perceived rights cross paths.

[DaemonSeid]

The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next.

Helen Keller

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next.

Helen Keller

And that's how I believe a lot of religious tenets (in all religions) originated.

This doesn't remove the validity of faith and spirituality but, for me, it highlights the real meaning of Christianity and the Bible as an historical document and perspective.

[agzg]

Ok... I don't really agree with you. Separation of church and state isn't so much to set up laws completely void of moral values but to protect the state from the church and the church from the state. There's going to be overrun, however, between both because obviously to a huge part of the population, religion is incredibly important (no matter the religion).

I'd say that since we don't yet have a state-run church and we don't have a state that is run by the church, the idea has been fairly successful.

I think morality will always play a part in lawmaking, it just depends what type of morals you prescribe to. We'll always have laws that prohibit things just because they're wrong (malum in se, I think, things like murder) and we'll have laws that prohibit things that aren't necessarily morally wrong (malum prohibitum, things like parking on the wrong side of the street).

That's not to say that morals don't change, but I'm just saying that you don't need to have religion to have a strong set of morals.

ETA: I'm not trying to change your personal belief, just state my own.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Ok... I don't really agree with you. Separation of church and state isn't so much to set up laws completely void of moral values but to protect the state from the church and the church from the state. There's going to be overrun, however, between both because obviously to a huge part of the population, religion is incredibly important (no matter the religion).

I'd say that since we don't yet have a state-run church and we don't have a state that is run by the church, the idea has been fairly successful.

I think morality will always play a part in lawmaking, it just depends what type of morals you prescribe to. We'll always have laws that prohibit things just because they're wrong (malum in se, I think, things like murder) and we'll have laws that prohibit things that aren't necessarily morally wrong (malum prohibitum, things like parking on the wrong side of the street).

That's not to say that morals don't change, but I'm just saying that you don't need to have religion to have a strong set of morals.

ETA: I'm not trying to change your personal belief, just state my own.

Thta's cool and some of your points I agree with.

No probs here.

I guess the overall arc for me is that we live in a society that in some ways are more tolerant of behaviors and mores (and not just this case either) that would have been condemnable many many years ago. So it's sometimes interesting to see how the more things 'change' the more things stay the same.

This case in particular is going to set a precedence considering also this is coming from the same state that shot down Prop 8 just a few short months ago.

It will be interesting to see how similar cases will stack up.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

This case in particular is going to set a precedence considering also this is coming from the same state that shot down Prop 8 just a few short months ago.

The precedent that it may set, however, is one that favors separation of church and state. This was a private, church-related school. The decision, as best I can tell and to the degree that church and state enter into it, supports the idea that the state cannot make the church accept something that violates church doctrine, even if society on the whole thinks what the school is doing is bad. (From the article linked in the OP, it appears that the legal issue turned on whether a private, church-related school is a "business" within the meaning of California non-discrimination laws. I have little doubt, though, that the church-state seperation argument was made.)

And California did not shoot down Proposition 8; California voters approved it.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The precedent that it may set, however, is one that favors separation of church and state.

Exactly what I was thinking.

Originally Posted by MysticCat

And California did not shoot down Proposition 8; California voters approved it.

That's what I meant, my bad for that one.

You know what I was thinking about....the MINORITIES that were counted that voted against it...

[KSig RC]

Mods plz change thread title to "Even Activist Circuits Can't Fuck This One Up, Court Rules" - thanks!

[agzg]

Beware of my flying Bible of POWERRRRRRRRRRRR!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

Beware of my flying Bible of POWERRRRRRRRRRRR!

This thread is nothing without theme music.

This will have to suffice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJwAmVewHQ

[agzg]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This thread is nothing without theme music.

This will have to suffice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQJwAmVewHQ

I like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr_bP...eature=related

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

I like this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr_bP...eature=related

LOL...I won't ask how you found that.

This also works. My FAVORITE commercial: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANaSxsFITnU