Rebelious pledges

[pikeks109]

Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi:
Well im glad to hear you rolled the main trouble maker out of the group. But you still have a problem even if they behave...that is that they don't know anything about your fraternity or what it means. They wouldn't appreciate initiation when they get there. I don't know if you heard of the term bull pledge but basically down here in FL we use it if a pledge doesn't make grades or is ready to be initiated..we hold them over to the following semester's pledge class. We are on a 8 week pledge program here by university rules(its retarted but not much you can do...last year we went from max 16 week pledgeship to a max of 8). Anyways, we don't make them wear their pin or carry their pledge manuel but they have to go through pledgeship all over again by going to pledge class etc. Thats one loop-hole your chapter should look at for these guys. Hope this helps

Yes we've done that before however this is spring rush. Now would you hold them off over the summer? This is the problem we are facing because alot of the brothers want them to pledge again.

[pikeks109]

Originally posted by lifesaver:
I have to join the choir on this one. Back in Fall ’96 our pledge dad thought new member education was watching porn at his apartment. Needless to say they didn’t learn jack, and didn’t take ANYTHING seriously, then or after. We had 19 pledges that semester and the next, only 7 made grades, and by 1 year out, only 3 were even enrolled in the university. But did we learn our lesson? No. The next fall (’97) we did better, but never let the new members know who was in charge, and the way the game was to be played. They ran completely all over us. It was so bad, that to this day, they are considered the worst pledges we ever had, but that was our fault for letting them get away with it. I even had one of the pledges girlfriends tell me after initiation that Steve (her bfriend) had told her he wished we’d taken a harder line with them. They were crappy brothers. Not just cocky, but insolent as well. After that we totally cracked the whip. We went all out. And it has totally worked - accountability and the like. Our pledging/initiating ratio is now at NIC & university recommended levels, our new member grades have dramatically improved, and our new members can taste the reality of the situation in the air, “We don’t need you that bad.” ITS NOT WORTH THE TROUBLE.

Another tip I got from another chapter on campus is a “dedication” interview conducted halfway through the semester. We have never used it, but its nice to have there if need be. From the way it was explained to me is you have the brothers sit in the upper back of one of the larger auditorium lecture halls, where the lights are dimmed, and bring the pledges in one at a time and conduct an interview with them. The set up is meant to be somewhat intimidating to underscore the seriousness of the occasion. Different brothers then ask them questions like, ‘what have you done for the org, what would you do differently, what would you change, what have you learned, yada yada yada.” It seems to work pretty well for the org that does it. They are one of the stronger houses on campus.

Just my 2 bits and change

Yes I'm aware of that function as well. Thats another problem, we did that as well and the pledges apparently lied to us on the spot. We didn't realize this until 2 weeks later. "Cracking the whip" What does this exactly mean? Yell at them? Make them do physical activities?

[matthewg]

Originally posted by UNFSigmaChi:
Well im glad to hear you rolled the main trouble maker out of the group. But you still have a problem even if they behave...that is that they don't know anything about your fraternity or what it means. They wouldn't appreciate initiation when they get there. I don't know if you heard of the term bull pledge but basically down here in FL we use it if a pledge doesn't make grades or is ready to be initiated..we hold them over to the following semester's pledge class. We are on a 8 week pledge program here by university rules(its retarted but not much you can do...last year we went from max 16 week pledgeship to a max of 8). Anyways, we don't make them wear their pin or carry their pledge manuel but they have to go through pledgeship all over again by going to pledge class etc. Thats one loop-hole your chapter should look at for these guys. Hope this helps

That's pretty cool - we actually have something similar. Pledging in my fraternity usually lasts two semesters. Exceptions are made when someone enters the fraternity at a pretty advanced state in his studies (reduction to one semester) or if he failes the initiation exam or otherwise does not seem ready for initiation. Then he has to be pledge for a 3rd semester. It works pretty well.

[33girl]

sigmagrrl, I know exactly what you mean. I've seen more than one pledge class w/ the "you can't make me do anything, it's hazing" attitude. Anyway, not going there, time to help pikeks109.

Do you have a national pledge test on basic knowledge, et al? If they are as clueless as you say, they will flunk. They won't be able to be initiated due to NATIONAL STANDARDS and there won't be thing one the chapter can do about it.

Do brothers have to go to a certain %age of events to be in good standing? That applies to the pledges, too. If you don't have a system like this in place it might be time to get one.

Rather than the "shape up" lecture try reverse psychology. Ask if there's anything they feel they aren't getting from the brotherhood - ask if they are sorry they accepted their bids, since that's the impression they are giving. Tell them if they are that unhappy, they can leave.

But if you do ALL THAT and they still are a-holes, don't hesitate to give them the boot. You don't need that kind of cancer on the brotherhood for the sake of numbers.

[PinkStar17]

In my opinion pledges like this are the kinda of pledges that end up bringing a whole chapter down. I would suggest bringing in an alumni.. bring in those guys who have WORKED and EARNED the letters they wear. Many of the older greeks that came before us went through many hazing antics, and not really bad things.. but things that taught them RESPECT.. and PRIDE for the letters they had to earn. Stress to them that if they can't see how important and how strong the bond is because they are on the outside looking in.. and that if they want to be a part of the brotherhood explain to them that they wont have that chance if they dont PROVE that they want it.. scare them a little talk about people getting cut and things like that.. they need to learn that even if the other brothers may be biologically younger... yet they have earned the letters they wear and the RESPECT of every brother..

another thing.. im not sure how it is elsewhere, but our pledges on campus wear "iron-on" letters.. if this is the same...let them know... the reason they wear iron ons and not stiched on's is because at anytime an iron on can be peeled off.. yet stich on's are sewn on and permenant..


------------------
Love, Honor, Truth

[Lil_G]

After reading the posts on this subject I would like to reiterate a few things. Against the opinions of everyone else, I don't see these guys shaping up...You've said they've already been warned and that they failed multiple tests - then get rid of them. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to remove the ones that aren't giving the effort. Maybe i'm a little harsher on pledges because I founded our organization, but if anyone wants to be my brother they better prove it. I'll take 1 die hard pledge over 10 mediocre pledges anyday...those are the ones that will truly be with the chapter for a long time.
Hazing has nothing to do with it, if these pledges think they can't be kicked out, they're dead wrong.

Show up at their house tell them straight up what's happening, and get their pledge manuals and pins.



[This message has been edited by Lil_G (edited April 10, 2001).]

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by pikeks109:
"Cracking the whip" What does this exactly mean? Yell at them? Make them do physical activities?

No, not at all. Its simply a euphamism for getting them to understand that if they dont correct their errant behaviors, they will be cut. Often they are never really told the seroiusness of the situation. i.e., straighten up and fly right. Or as my red neck mother would say, "lower the boom," on them. Cut them, hold them over we have held a pledge over for three semesters before. He finally got the clue. I imagine your initiation vote percentage is significantly higher than your pledging vote percentage. For example, in my org, it takes 65% to pledge, but 82% to get initiated. If you do not have a higher standard, I'd suggest looking at your chapters bylaws. It would make a lot of this argument moot. If a few of you recognize these "boys" (to use penguintrax venacular) are slacking, they wouldnt make the higher initiation vote percentage anyway.

[SoCalGirl]

I completely agree w/ blackball. The Pikes at my school do it, then give the guy a chance to shape up before completely throwing him out.

Holding them till fall may be the best thing about this. You know that any pledges that come back will be dedicated! If they bail over the summer, they would've even if they were initiated.

Cracking down on them doesn't mean physical activities or yelling at them. What do you do to an active that slacks off? Treat the pledge the same way. If that means a standards or judicial board, drag their butts in there. If it means fine them because their skipping meetings, do it.

You want them to be brothers. So treat them like they already are!

Make sure their involved w/ the chapter too. If the chapter plays sports, put pledges on the team. If you have a philanthropy coming up, make sure they pull their weight!

[bigBERG]

The fact that they are failing your organizations test is a strong statement as to what kind of people they are. If you cannot dedicate yourself to the history and knowledge of my organization then you should not be pledging. If that means kicking out a few or even all teh pledges than so be it. Also the fact that they show up to little or no fraternity events IMHO means show them the door.

------------------
Many are called, many are chosen, but only a few are PHROZEN!

[Chiocutie]

I am the New Member Educator for our chapter in Chi omega. We had a similar problem last semester (I wasn't the Educator then) but this semester I decided it will not be like that with our New Members. I am very open and friendly with our girls but am also firm with them. I expect nothing less from them and they strive to give me their best. You have to be FIRM with them from the very get go. By the end of pledgeship it might be a little too late to turn these guys around. Let them know that their behavior reflects on the fraternity and the reasons for joining a fraternal organization are for friendship, developing leadership skills, and many many other reasons. I always stress that to our girls and they are constantly striving to live up to our purposes and being what Chi Omegas strive to be. People need to be taught from early on that they must pull their slack in their organization. Pledges must be taught that or they are just going to be "dead weight."

[N2]

Pikeks,

If I am reading correctly, you started off saying that the brothers allowed them to slack off most of the pledge period. Is this correct? If so, have the brothers stand up and be a man. Admit that you, the brothers, screwed up and let the pledge period go to shit. Then explain to the pledges that this is unacceptable to the Fraternity as a hole. The end result being that there will be NO initiation this semester. Terminate the pledge period and issue the ones that have any potential bids for the Fall. After you have done this you MUST address the root of the problem. Work on brotherhood in the chapter and the fact that no single brother is more important that the chapter. If you fail to trim the fat, you will get lazy and sloppy. If you allow it to continue it increase exponentially.

[BillyMac]

I am in agreement. From your post its sounds as if the brothers may have been a little too easy on them. Now that it is time for them to see your ritual you want them to straighten up, and I dont blame you. Do you think they are too far gone to be corrected? If so then get rid of them. Yeah I understand that the semester is almost over but oh well, nothing you can do now. This is a problem I hope we never have. It wouldnt have lasted thru the second week. Just remember next semester that pledging is militant in organization for many reason, more especially in preperation of your pledges seeing the ritual that yall hold so dear. Do not run a man thru that is unworthy.

Good Luck

[This message has been edited by BillyMac (edited April 11, 2001).]

[shadokat]

After reading some other posts, mainly Lil_G, I think I agree that giving them the boot might be the best thing. The worst pledges are almost always the worst brothers/sisters. They will be dead weight, doing nothing and getting all the benefits of the fraternity. You gotta set the example now, before the reputation for the fraternity as a whole suffers. People talk, especially pledges who don't care!

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KnowledgeEternal:
If they don't care about coming to the meetings and respecting their brothers don't you think they would turn on your fratr once you kick them out? What if they are the type to try and put out secrets once they don't get their way? Just something to think about.

Letting them in because they might publish secrets if you throw them out is like giving in to blackmail!!! No GLO should feel pressured into initiating ANYONE. It is an honor and a privilege to be an initiated member of an organization --- any organization, Greek or otherwise. It's not a God-given right - and membership should certainly not be handed out just because of "what if" questions.

What secrets would these kids know anyway? If you get rid of them before initiation, they don't have a whole lot of knowledge anyway (especially if they are as slack about learning their pledge manuals as they are about attending functions) What they know as pledges would scarcely cover a page and certainly wouldn't make for very interesting reading.

**once again, dzrose93 is stepping off of the proverbial soapbox**

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by N2:
Pikeks,

If you fail to trim the fat, you will get lazy and sloppy. If you allow it to continue it increase exponentially.

I'll add to that a quote Iheard at our national meeting, "If you trim the fat from the piece of meat, it might be smaller in the end, but it will be a lot stronger."