Why? Sophomore UGA story - Page 3

AlphaXi_Husky · #1 08-19-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpipes

My campus was that way too. It does really mess with chapter size though and makes total irrelevant, to an extent.

I'm a bit confused - how would that make total irrelevant? Because of a higher turnover rate (three years instead of four)? Usually I can figure out what people mean, but my brain is muddled today.

irishpipes · #2 08-19-2008, 05:54 PM

I know where I went the chapter sizes were all over the place. It had nothing to do - well, little to do, with chapter strength. Graduation rates are no problem if you consistently take the same mix, but if in year 1 you take 20 sophomores and 25 freshmen, and then in year 2 you take 10 sophomores and 35 freshmen and then year 3 you take 5 juniors, 15 sophomores, and 25 freshmen, etc etc

You took 45 each year, but your loss to graduation is all over the place. So, total is relatively meaningless. You can be way over total just because you didn't lose a lot to graduation, or way under total because you lost a ton. It just gets messy. Total is no longer an indication of how your past recruitments have gone or your initiation rate or membership retention.

I know at my school, all of the strong chapters had between 150-200 members, and the chapter with 150 wasn't necessarily a weaker chapter than the one with 200, or vice versa. So, if total was 165 and you had 150, it didn't necessarily mean you were a struggling chapter. That's what I meant.

UGAalum94 · #3 08-19-2008, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I know where I went the chapter sizes were all over the place. It had nothing to do - well, little to do, with chapter strength. Graduation rates are no problem if you consistently take the same mix, but if in year 1 you take 20 sophomores and 25 freshmen, and then in year 2 you take 10 sophomores and 35 freshmen and then year 3 you take 5 juniors, 15 sophomores, and 25 freshmen, etc etc

You took 45 each year, but your loss to graduation is all over the place. So, total is relatively meaningless. You can be way over total just because you didn't lose a lot to graduation, or way under total because you lost a ton. It just gets messy. Total is no longer an indication of how your past recruitments have gone or your initiation rate or membership retention.

I know at my school, all of the strong chapters had between 150-200 members, and the chapter with 150 wasn't necessarily a weaker chapter than the one with 200, or vice versa. So, if total was 165 and you had 150, it didn't necessarily mean you were a struggling chapter. That's what I meant.

This makes complete sense, and I think I'd like a Greek system like that a lot.

But at a school where most groups regarded as "successful" are relatively the same size and there's little COB, it's a big risk to graduate too many at once.

AlphaXi_Husky · #4 08-19-2008, 05:57 PM

Gotchya - that makes sense. Thanks for explaining!

Zillini · #5 08-19-2008, 07:03 PM

This discussion is why I love a separate Upperclassmen Quota. It eliminates the possibility of PNM being discriminated against due to year in school. I'm not saying this happened here. I don't know UGA's campus culture well enough nor this particular PNM to speculate on anything.

Prior to Bama adopting the separate quota it was nearly impossible for sophomore to get a bid. She might as well not waste her time and registration fee. Considering I was a sophomore pledge from a campus where this was no big deal, it pained me to see so many fabulous women released simply because of their class standing. Nothing I said could change this mindset. I celebrated when Bama adopted an Upperclassmen quota.

irishpipes · #6 08-19-2008, 07:06 PM

I should point out that the chapter houses at my school tended to sleep fewer members (mine slept 66) so having upperclassmen didn't prevent you from filling your house, which is a huge consideration on other campuses.

preciousjeni · #7 08-19-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I should point out that the chapter houses at my school tended to sleep fewer members (mine slept 66) so having upperclassmen didn't prevent you from filling your house, which is a huge consideration on other campuses.

Do upperclassmen not live in the houses?

irishpipes · #8 08-19-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Do upperclassmen not live in the houses?

They're the only ones who live in, but when you can only sleep 66 and you have 150-200, you need to have a lot live out as well.

Lightning Bug! · #9 08-19-2008, 10:27 PM

Our house only slept in the thirties! I CANNOT IMAGINE sleeping in a house with 65 other girls...30-something was enough to drive me crazy at times!

I.C. a Pi Phi · #10 08-19-2008, 07:23 PM

Class year is also looked at as $$ contribution. Let's say your dues are $1000/year.

If you pledge a freshman, that person is bringing $4000 to the sorority before you have to "replace" them, while the sophomore is contributing $3000.

UGAALUM · #11 08-19-2008, 09:03 PM

First, as a UGA grad I like the way Alabama does it giving a separate quota to upperclassman so the sororites will pledge. I think having older girls in a pledge class can help the younger ones. Once again I think each sorority on campus has there own way of deciding who can live in the house. In my sorority the 2008 pledge class will have priority to live in the house no matter their year. Some sororites require their officers to live in the house others don't. When you have a pledge class in excess of 60 there will be some in that pledge class that will never be able to live in the house which I think is sad because of lack of space. Usually these are the girls that are least active and need to live in the house.

CrackerBarrel · #12 08-19-2008, 10:59 PM

I still think that something else had to have been going on. I know a lot of sophomores who rushed at a lot of SEC schools and they sometimes got shut out of the best houses (which I think otherwise they could have gotten in at), but they all got bids somewhere.

APhiAnna · #13 08-19-2008, 11:42 PM

One scenario that I have seen happen is this: let's say a very qualified upperclasswoman is rushing at a competitive school with five chapters: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Eta. Alpha, Beta and Gamma are competitive chapters and Delta and Eta are less competitive. After round #1, each woman has to narrow it down to 3 chapters. Based on her outstanding resume, grades, etc. she may be invited back to Alpha, Beta and Gamma for the next round. Therefore she drops Delta and Eta. For the next round, however, Alpha, Beta and Gamma decide cut the vast majority of upperclasswomen and our PNM is one of them. She has no bid. Delta and Eta may have been extremely excited to have her.

While obviously the new release figure methods and upperclasswomen quotas help eliminate the chance of this happening I think this could be one way that an amazing upperclasswoman receives no bid. It's a very simplified example but I think it gets my point across.

irishpipes · #14 08-19-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

One scenario that I have seen happen is this: let's say a very qualified upperclasswoman is rushing at a competitive school with five chapters: Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Eta. Alpha, Beta and Gamma are competitive chapters and Delta and Eta are less competitive. After round #1, each woman has to narrow it down to 3 chapters. Based on her outstanding resume, grades, etc. she may be invited back to Alpha, Beta and Gamma for the next round. Therefore she drops Delta and Eta. For the next round, however, Alpha, Beta and Gamma decide cut the vast majority of upperclasswomen and our PNM is one of them. She has no bid. Delta and Eta may have been extremely excited to have her.

While obviously the new release figure methods and upperclasswomen quotas help eliminate the chance of this happening I think this could be one way that an amazing upperclasswoman receives no bid. It's a very simplified example but I think it gets my point across.

Excellent illustration. She maximized her options, they were just the wrong ones.

UGAALUM · #15 08-19-2008, 11:21 PM

I know some colleges don't have houses only lodges, but for the ones that do I think living in the house is the best experience I ever had. Back in the day we lived in the house for 2 years because the houses were large and the chapters smaller ( late 1970) You can live in an apartment after you get out of school, but only one time in your life can you live in house. If you don't want to do it why join a sorority? The thing that has amazed me is the number of parents that pay for their daughter to live in the house and then rent an apartment for them. As a Mother why wouldn't you want your daughter to live in the house with a House Mother (no curfew) that allows no alcohol, smoking or boys in the rooms. I know some parents say they can't study, but there are quiet hours and study rooms better than the dorms.