Tiers...

[banditone]

I couldn't imagine going running to my moms about something like that. Hilarious.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by Firehouse

No irony here (three of the top five were kicked off) and no hidden message.
All three (SAE, ATO, SigEp) were booted for hazing, and in each case it was a mother who blew the whistle. One huge difference about this generation is that they share everything with their parents, including the details of their hazing. These were magnificent chapters, each in the 120-150 man range. Their loss disrupted the dynamic of the TopTier. Now, the system is stable again after other fraternities grew and took their place.

I'm only 26 and find that strange too.

who would tell their mom about what they do with their fraternity??

I hope I'm not considered part of that generation.

/hijack

okay, now for the real question:

What if there are only 12 fraternties, not counting groups that aren't part of IFC? I still think that tiers might exist, but judging by my expierence, it changes every year. I don't want to give specific examples, but it almost seems easier to be good now if you are brand new, as opposed to when we came on and, well, no specific examples, let's just say that being frat#9 when only 8 or so were on campus doesn't lead to the warmest of receptions.

Also, is there a relationship between the founding date of the chapter and the social status/tier of said group?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

I'm only 26 and find that strange too.

who would tell their mom about what they do with their fraternity??

I hope I'm not considered part of that generation.

/hijack

okay, now for the real question:

What if there are only 12 fraternties, not counting groups that aren't part of IFC? I still think that tiers might exist, but judging by my expierence, it changes every year. I don't want to give specific examples, but it almost seems easier to be good now if you are brand new, as opposed to when we came on and, well, no specific examples, let's just say that being frat#9 when only 8 or so were on campus doesn't lead to the warmest of receptions.

Also, is there a relationship between the founding date of the chapter and the social status/tier of said group?

Absolutely there's a relationship.

Oldest are almost always higher. (or at least have a greater chance of being higher.)

And no, having 12 fraternities does not mean the tiers change. Arkansas has that many and it hasn't changed. The middle switches up a bit but only because of a new house.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Absolutely there's a relationship.

Oldest are almost always higher. (or at least have a greater chance of being higher.)

And no, having 12 fraternities does not mean the tiers change. Arkansas has that many and it hasn't changed. The middle switches up a bit but only because of a new house.

I think location plays a factor too, then.

As well as average chapter size. If you're at a big school with 12 groups and they have 90+ members a piece, it's going to be a different dynamic than at a school with 12 fraternities and the average size is 25-30.

[PhiGam]

There are not five top tier fraternities at Florida State... Lambda Chi is the only one that would be considered top tier at an SEC school (other than UF).

[Firehouse]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

There are not five top tier fraternities at Florida State... Lambda Chi is the only one that would be considered top tier at an SEC school (other than UF).

With respect, of course the fraternities at FSU conform to the III Tier system just as they do everywhere else. There are 20 IFC fraternities here, and there are currently five in the Top Tier as predicted, although - and this is important - the recent losses of ATO and Sig Ep and even Pi Kappa Phi along with the earlier loss of SAE has caused an instability in the natural order. The top of the list is still unsettled, and with a little effort this is an opportunity for the second tier groups to advance.
And regarding Lambda Chi, it's a mistake to assume that a Tier I chapter at one school would be Tier I at another school. Different cultures, different standards. You have to consider each campus separately. The Tier I fraternities at Penn State couldn't compete one-on-one with the Tier I chapters at Texas due to size, but it's wrong to assume that they're all not superior fraternity chapters. I'm not overly impressed with LXA at FSU but what I think doesn't matter becasue there's no doubt that they're Tier I here.

Remember, the tiers are determined by the perception of rivals, sororities and other peers. The Wilson Heller Survey standard was: "prominence, power and prestige". That might be measured differently on different campuses, but it's a universal standard to determine perception.

What's Tier I on one campus doesn't necessarily transfer from one school to another, but the dynamic remains predictable and constant. When you get below, say, 8 fraternities, a different dynamic comes into play but no less predictable. For instance, in a system with only five fraternities, the breakdown is 2-2-1. Two rivals on top, two in the middle and one on the bottom.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

There are not five top tier fraternities at Florida State... Lambda Chi is the only one that would be considered top tier at an SEC school (other than UF).

Thank you for the compliment!

But I am sure each is unto themselves and just as good as some if not on their campmi then others.

Hi, Mine is better than yours, is called BS! It is each chapter at each individual chapter.

Are all of mine better than yours, get a life!

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Thank you for the compliment!

But I am sure each is unto themselves and just as good as some if not on their campmi then others.

Hi, Mine is better than yours, is called BS! It is each chapter at each individual chapter.

Are all of mine better than yours, get a life!

I think he means if you put the FSU houses in the SEC, only their LXA chapter would be top-tier anywhere.

Not sure if that's how you were interpreting it or not, cause I don't really know what you were saying. Drunk at 2:30 on a Sunday? Awesome.

[Rudey]

It'd be interesting to assign risk to each tier.

If you're in tier 1, you will be hazed at least 35% of the time. There is a 50% chance of being booted off campus. Etc. Etc.

Take that percentage and multiply it against how much you think it's worth being in the top tier and you'll get your real worth.

It's not to say being in the top tier isn't great, but I'm amazed that national offices haven't stepped in to control the social aspirations of their members given their costs these days.

[TexasWSP]

yeah im not sure aboutnthat one. We dont have 5 top tier fraternities and our greek system is excellemt/

[Zillini]

Any large group of people sort themselves into categories, cliques or tiers. High school, college, workplace, etc. It's not necessarily as bad a thing as some would like everyone to believe. It's not always about popularity, often it's about similar interests. Using the HS example, a science club kid simply may not have a whole lot in common with the jocks.

From the popularity/competitve standpoint, I don't necessarily agree with the OP's reasons why some chapters are where they are or that the middle and bottom ones don't know how and/or don't want to improve their standing. I've seen some chapters commit themselves totally to improving their social standing and be successful after years of hard work. Some times there are factors beyond anyone's control that keep the "top" groups on top and the others where they are, unless something major occurs. (Thinking now of a campus such as Bama.)

[Elephant Walk]

All that true.

The only way you can compare chapter to chapter in my opinion, are things that have nothing to do with perception on campus. Doing it in numbers. Size, quality of members, size of the house, etc.

[Firehouse]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

All that true.

The only way you can compare chapter to chapter in my opinion, are things that have nothing to do with perception on campus. Doing it in numbers. Size, quality of members, size of the house, etc.

I think we're saying the same thing; could be wrong. Once the numnbers, house, quality, etc are established, then perception follows. Perception lags behind a few years, so some are actulaly better than their public image and vice-versa. However, the fraternities with the most enduring perceived strengths are the one assumed to be on top.

If, on the other hand, you're saying that you can't fairly compare a top chapter on one campus to a top chapter on another, you are absolutely correct.

[CrackerBarrel]

Who cares? You're all bottom-tier for sure, brah.

[nate2512]

Originally Posted by CountryClub

I don't like that house. At all. Fraternity houses should have massive white columns, red brick, a huge lawn and backyard, party barn, etc. It's not that hard people.

Much like the UF kappa sig house? Except for the fact they lack a front yard.

The Beta house is nice, but by no means "awe-inspiring" and I'm sure someone in the SEC has something for it.