Saliva as a weapon nets 35 years

[Senusret I]

Maybe I haven't read closely enough...and maybe I am biased because I work in HIV/AIDS....but....the CDC says:

Saliva, Tears, and Sweat

HIV has been found in saliva and tears in very low quantities from some AIDS patients. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV.



Sooooo.....I don't understand how they were able to successfully argue that his spit was a deadly weapon.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Maybe I haven't read closely enough...and maybe I am biased because I work in HIV/AIDS....but....the CDC says:

Saliva, Tears, and Sweat



HIV has been found in saliva and tears in very low quantities from some AIDS patients. It is important to understand that finding a small amount of HIV in a body fluid does not necessarily mean that HIV can be transmitted by that body fluid. HIV has not been recovered from the sweat of HIV-infected persons. Contact with saliva, tears, or sweat has never been shown to result in transmission of HIV.

Sooooo.....I don't understand how they were able to successfully argue that his spit was a deadly weapon.

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I'm not trying to be a devil's advocate or in any way argue on this guy's side, but just a question, does there have to be known "intent" in these cases, or does the fact that he is HIV-positive negate that? As in, does he have to say, "Oh, yeah, well have some AIDS, copper!" and then spit, obviously showing intent to harm, or does his spitting at anyone at anytime make it an "assault" because he carries the virus? Because don't some people just spit in people's faces out of frustration and to show disrespect as a matter of course, not in an "I'm gonna get you with my germs" kind of way?

Sen...I think this is where Nittany is trying to go....not so much that the fact of small amounts of saliva can't pass HIV(which is very good information to know BTW) ...but he had an intent to try...

Much like someone trying to intentionally rob someone with an unloaded gun.

Moreso, the intent and the resulting fear from the intent is what got him time moreso than the actual act itself.

The action: He spat at the eyes and MOUTH of the officer...he was intent on trying to pass it if he could.....if he just spat on the officer for the sake of spitting, ok...but he was very specific on WHERE he was aiming his spit. (as the report states...)

His intent: if he was successful at getting his spit on those specific areas his thought was probably, HA! You arrest me, now you got my disease!!

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

His intent: if he was successful at getting his spit on those specific areas his thought was probably, HA! You arrest me, now you got my disease!!

So we can convict now on what one can assume someone was thinking? Terrifying.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

So we can convict now on what one can assume someone was thinking? Terrifying.

nittany...from what the report says (and that's all I have to go by) if it is true that he was specifically aiming for the mouth and eyes in an effort to try and spread his infection, and it can be proven that it was his intent to spread said infection....if the spit fits, you must convict.

ETA: I just did a precursery search about people convicted for spreading HIV:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=man...&ei=UTF-8&vm=r

It's a punishable crime if you knowingly try to spread HIV

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

if the spit fits, you must convict.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL! You go, Johnnie C.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

It's a punishable crime if you knowingly try to spread HIV

Hence the man in the OP getting 35 years for it.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

ETA: I just did a precursery search about people convicted for spreading HIV:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=man...&ei=UTF-8&vm=r

It's a punishable crime if you knowingly try to spread HIV

All the examples in your link are of people having unprotected sex, though.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

So we can convict now on what one can assume someone was thinking? Terrifying.

Most crimes have, since ancient English common law times included an element of intent.

In criminal statutes, you'll see words like "intentionally, knowingly, recklessly or negligently" as being a big part of the element of a crime. In latin, it's the mens rea, or the 'guilty mind.'

Murder in the first degree, for example, everyone knows that murder is "The intentional killing of another human being with malice aforethought." Half of the crime is the mental state.

The other half is the actus reus, the 'guilty act.'

But as I said above, in this particular case, this defendant's priors had a role to play. He had pled out and served 13 years for five counts of attempted murder... so this sentence, in my opinion is a public service. This man, if left in the general population will kill. He has shown before that he is capable of doing it and here, these facts, if true point out that he would have no qualms with passing a mostly fatal disease to his arresting officer.

This kind of trash deserves to be locked up.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Kevin

But as I said above, in this particular case, this defendant's priors had a role to play. He had pled out and served 13 years for five counts of attempted murder... so this sentence, in my opinion is a public service. This man, if left in the general population will kill. He has shown before that he is capable of doing it and here, these facts, if true point out that he would have no qualms with passing a mostly fatal disease to his arresting officer.

This kind of trash deserves to be locked up.

I am in total agreement, trust me, I am not in any way trying to argue on behalf of this particular dirtball, I'm just trying to clarify if someone with HIV will automatically be assumed to be intending to harm by spitting in someone's face, even if it's just an in-the-heat-of-the-moment-reaction and the "intent" was just to show disrespect, versus someone who makes it verbally or otherwise patently clear that they're spitting in an attempt to "give" the person something.

[Senusret I]

But......say I was REALLY angry with somebody and tried to give them a concussion with a helium balloon. Y'all know good and daggone well a helium balloon is not going to give somebody a concussion.

Furthermore, I think if I was going to spit on someone, I'd aim for the face, too. I think, to be honest, the HIV in this case is incidental.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

But......say I was REALLY angry with somebody and tried to give them a concussion with a helium balloon. Y'all know good and daggone well a helium balloon is not going to give somebody a concussion.

Furthermore, I think if I was going to spit on someone, I'd aim for the face, too. I think, to be honest, the HIV in this case is incidental.

LOL @ the balloon scenario and re: the bolded part, that's what I'm trying to get to and have continually failed at, apparently.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

But......say I was REALLY angry with somebody and tried to give them a concussion with a helium balloon. Y'all know good and daggone well a helium balloon is not going to give somebody a concussion.

Furthermore, I think if I was going to spit on someone, I'd aim for the face, too. I think, to be honest, the HIV in this case is incidental.

aww come on now man...a helium ballon.....unless it was filled with a virus...

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

aww come on now man...a helium ballon.....unless it was filled with a virus...

Helium can kill you. That's a fact.

[Rudey]

If life gives you aids, make lemonaids!

[Senusret I]

^^^ I'm with you.