Are we open to women with children?

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

That's possible in your organization? Is that possible in most NPC sororities?

If you can terminate a girl for consistently not paying her dues, why can't you terminate someone for consistently not attending mandatory events?

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yes, generally speaking.

That doesn't mean that every woman with a child is suitable for membership or will become a member, based on official criteria and other criteria.

I would agree. I don't think she should be automatically excluded just because she has kids but she does have to understand the commitment and expectations.

And since I didn't get to comment in the other (now closed) thread, bringing kids to a chapter meeting is completely inappropriate unless there was some unforeseen emergency for the pure fact that they aren't members.

[AOII Angel]

For a mother to be a collegiate sorority member, she has to have a lot of support to make it possible. Money is usually an issue since the average parent would rather their child have something rather than themselves. Time is also a problem since most will have to work to support their families. If you have money and time left after being a good parent and supporting yourself and your own, join a sorority. If you can't do all of this, don't expect someone else to pick up the slack for you. Your sisters aren't there to be your babysitters or to help raise your children. It also is not fair to your chapter to use your situation as an excuse not to participate. I have no problem with women making this choice...I'm sure it will enrich their lives, but they have made choices that make the decision to join a sorority more complicated and difficult.

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Let me try to take this topic in a more positive direction.

Are we sorority women really open to the idea that older students, some who may be parents, can be members and have a positive collegiate membership experience? I'm not too sure about that, except on non-traditional campuses. I don't think we're totally there yet.

My dad was in a fraternity at USC late 1950s and had many brothers who were Korean war vets who were married with children. My husband also had Fraternity brothers in mid80s who were vets and some that were just much older students. It didn't seem to be a big issue at all. But I couldn't picture a woman of any age married or with kids in a sorority during my collegiate years. is it really any different today?

any thoughts??? (please no veering off on parenting issues.)

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

That's possible in your organization? Is that possible in most NPC sororities?

Yes it is. Every sorority has different attendance and participation standards for their collegiate (undergrad) members. If a member is having trouble meeting them, she is generally sent through a disciplinary process where she has several chances to improve her attendance and discuss with the appropriate officers what her conflicts are and work out some arrangements for things she can't attend.

Termination is usually the last step in a long process, but yes, it is possible. It's usually reserved for those who are continually absent and don't follow the proper protocol like sending excuses or talking to officers if there's a scheduling problem. In other words, those who don't show up and don't care.

I would hold a woman with kids to the same participation standards I'd hold any other sister to.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Let me try to take this topic in a more positive direction.

Are we sorority women really open to the idea that older students, some who may be parents, can be members and have a positive collegiate membership experience? I'm not too sure about that, except on non-traditional campuses. I don't think we're totally there yet.

My dad was in a fraternity at USC late 1950s and had many brothers who were Korean war vets who were married with children. My husband also had Fraternity brothers in mid 80s who were vets and some that were just much older students. It didn't seem to be a big issue at all. But I couldn't picture a woman of any age married or with kids in a sorority during my collegiate years. is it really any different today?

any thoughts??? (please no veering off on parenting issues.)

*Generally speaking*, is it because men are more likely to leave their "personal life" (non fraternity related life) at the door when it comes to fraternity activities and/or business?

As such, I wonder how often the men brought their children to fraternity events? Especially those that were not "open" or appropriate for non members.

[Green+White]

Originally Posted by MellySK

So, basically, i think it's a personal choice for the woman in question. However, after reading the thread about bringing young children to social events and meetings, i do NOT find that acceptable

She did NOT ask for that opinion in this thread.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Green+White

She did NOT ask for that opinion in this thread.

Part of having a discussion about being open to women with children in sororities involves talking about things like the possibility of children being brought to chapter events. Everyone's entitled to an opinion here, and discussing that situation in general is fair game. She is just stating how she feels about kids coming to sorority events, not trying to offend you.

[Green+White]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT

[MellySK]

Originally Posted by Green+White

She did NOT ask for that opinion in this thread.

while i didn't mean to drag that particular thread into this one, I was attempting to distinquish what I thought was appropriate, which is the topic of this thread. having women with kids in a sorority is one thing, and it's fine, having kids at sorority events is not, no matter the kids or the mother, in my opinion.

[amanda6035]

Originally Posted by Green+White

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

DROP IT

Hah. Wow.

I answered the question, dear. Defensive much, are we?

They need to be able to make the same time commitments that are required of collegiate women who dont have kids. They need to be able to pay their dues, as is expected of other collegiate women. They need to be able to make it to philanthropy events, and sisterhood events, etc etc. If they cant put in at least what is required, and not force the other women to bend over backwards to accomodate their children, then no. As a collegiate woman, it was not my job to accomodate some other person's kids and their schedule.

I think we'd all be a little more open to women with children - as long as they were held to the same standards as the rest of us. Unfortunately, as you've proved, many times, they think they should be exception to the rules. Women like UWO, though, are a great example of women who know what's appropriate and what's not when it comes to their kids and greek life.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Green+White

Did the OP ask if you wanted to babysit/accomodate people's kids? I think not. She asked if we were open to women with children.

Part of being open is discussing whether or not having kids at chapter events (in general) is appropriate. No one here is getting on your case, we are simply discussing issues. All opinions witheld, you posted something here that was intersting to us and sparked alot of good discussion.

As far as my personal opinion, I would be open to having a woman with a kid in my collegiate chapter, as long as she understood that she was going to be held to the same particpation and attendance standards that all my other sisters are. This would mean making adequate arrangements for the children so that she can attend or sending in an excuse. As far as kids attending events, I'd be okay with it if it were something fun like the Homecoming Cookout where there'd be alumnae and other kids, but not chapter

[SydneyK]

I can definitely see the benefit of having someone in your chapter who is a mom, but there are also some definite drawbacks.

When I was a collegiate, we bid on a woman who was a mom. She really fit in well with the women in the chapter and it was very obvious to us that she had incredible leadership potential. We were disappointed when, during her second year as an active, her regular babysitter moved. Unfortunately, this woman saw our chapter as the babysitting pool, and she didn't hesitate to ask us to watch her kids. It was ok at first, but it got real old, real fast. She eventually stiffed a few of us who babysat, and because of that, we ended up never agreeing to watch her kids again. She felt abandoned and angry; we felt taken advantage of and angry. It caused our chapter way more grief than any chapter should have to deal with. And quite frankly, we were relieved when she left (I don't know the specifics - don't know if she graduated, went alum, terminated, etc...).

Now, I know that not all moms would act this way. But we never thought she would - she seemed like the perfect sister. And, in fact, she was for a couple years. But the fact remained that she treated her sorority as a babysitting service, and that's not the purpose of sisterhood.

TSteven brings up a great question - is the difference due to the fact that men are more susceptible to checking their personal lives at the fraternity house door? I've said before, Mommy Brain is hard to shut off. For some reason (and I'm not dissing dads - I'm quite jealous, actually), men seem to have an easier time shutting off Daddy Brain (or, at least, appearing to).

[bejazd]

In the case of my dad (and try to keep in mind the context of the times) married guys with kids could be active in his fraternity because the activities centered on sharing brotherhood with each other more than social activites with sororities. The guys could come over to the house, play pool or volleyball together or whatever and go to class.

If a sorority chapter's programming and activities are primarily focused on social events with fraternities, I can't really see an older woman with or without kids, being all that interested in membership.

[sageofages]

I am going to jump into this one.

I am a sorority woman who joined Phi Mu as a 20 year old single mother. My daughter had a father who was active in her life, I just decided he was not going to be active in my life. That being said...

It was a HARD decision for my chapter sisters. I accepted their faith in my membership and promised to be the very best Phi Mu I could be. I think I have worked at it well. I have been an active, involved member for over 26 years!

My daughter came to some things when I was a collegiate chapter member. She did eat lunch with us at times and go to basketball games wearing a future Phi Mu shirt at times. She did help us "paint the rock" (for anyone who attended Wright State University) some days. Some days she stayed at home because quite honestly, I needed adult time too!

She did not attend chapter meetings, she did not attend all the parties. She did not attend any ritual.

The bottom line is the committment of the member, to all the aspects required. Motherhood, sisterhood, studenthood.