Sexual orientation and MS

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

In my fraternity, our "nationals" doesn't make the rules - we do. In 2002 we expanded our anti-discrimination policy to include sexual orientation.

It was proposed by undergraduates, promoted by undergraduates, submitted by undergraduates, and unanimously approved by the undergraduates.

We think for ourselves, and yes, we can let in whomever we want.

That's all well and good. It's just that when any member can deny membership to any person by writing "no" on a little piece of paper and turning it in anonymously, such anti discrimination clauses really aren't worth the paper they're written on or the ink they're written with.

Going around trumpeting how our organizations are so tolerant of this or that group doesn't really mean much. Do you think that because Sigma Nu voted to integrate back in the late 60's that all chapters are now racially diverse?

The bottom line, I think is that we are all the masters of our own chapters. It is none of our business who Texas at SAE will initiate or not. Personally, I really don't care.

As for my chapter, I really, honestly don't know whether or not we'd discriminate based upon sexual orientation. I'm an alum, I don't get a vote. I don't think I would have really cared. In my day, we had several candidates who I'm quite certain were gay -- none ever made it through. None of them ever made it as far as a vote (oddly, they all left school or dropped out of their candidate classes on their own accord). I wonder how things would have turned out..

At any rate, within my own chapter, when it came to membership decisions, I always respected everyone's choice whatever the reason.

That said, when we're talking about membership selection in another chapter or another organization -- who really even cares??? Some of you seem really bothered by this. Why would you want to ask an organization to accept members when other members don't to be forced to do so?

That's just not how (most) fraternities and sororities work folks. We're selective -- sometimes for some pretty absurd reasons. I figure that sexual orientation will be a big deal for some and not for others. What another organization/chapter does is really none of my concern.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SNUIGC

Although I know that this is probably going to throw fuel on the fire...and I probably shouldn't type this...but, I can't restrain myself, sorry.

That sounds almost exactly what a fraternity guy here said when Jesse Jackson came years and years ago... the IFC people here wouldn't let "negros" into the fraternities...so, he came down and asked why... one of the fraternity guys said, "We don't have to, so, fuck off."

My question is...where will it be in 40 years? Back in the sixties blacks were in an even worse situation...yet look what's happened in that time. People were making the same arguments about why we shouldn't let black people onto campuses, into fraternities, etc. that it's immoral, unethical, etc., but look at where it's gone since then.

They've joined chapters on campuses progressive enough to be open to them?

Other chapters and campuses remain segregated, but in most cases the problem seems to be almost as much about the lack of diversity of people going through recruitment as it does intentional discrimination by the groups. (Sure, I wish everyone who put forth some extra in this area through COB or special efforts at getting pre-rushing people into participating in formal, but that's not the point here so much: the point is that the social groups have finally accepted prevailing social norms and they are reflected in the membership of groups.)

I suppose I just find it surprising that some of you expect Greek organizations to be more progressive than society at large in various regions. I tend to think that private social clubs are much more likely to be more conservative, in the sense of resisting change, at least because it's going to tend to be a group of like minded people. When the people in the groups regard members of various demographic groups to be socially similar to them, then the groups will invite members of those groups to membership.

It's going to take some chapters longer than others, but unless you've had openly gay and lesbian members and anti-discrimination clauses about sexual orientation for a LONG time, maybe you should get off your moral high horses about people are who slower to realize what your organization may have just realized in the last ten years?