"You'll end up where you were meant to"...

[James]

It might be better to tell people: Look if you get to know these girls with an open mind you might come to like them.

Realistically if you meet 60 girls you are bound to like a bunch of them and make some friends. If you make some friends you will probably enjoy your experience. Thats usually what happens when someon comes back to us and says, it worked out. OR they found a home. They made friends.

However, its safe to say that they would have made friends in the organization they wanted originally. they just worked though their initial dissapointment. I am not abolutely sure why the women have decided to develop a system that puts undergrads in this position, but there it is.

However, the potential to make friends may not overcome the fact that a chapter has a lower social status in the eyes of the PNM and maybe even in the eyes of the campus. In that case its perfectly understandable for the woman not to want to join, and we shouldn't be pressuring them to do so.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by James
I am not abolutely sure why the women have decided to develop a system that puts undergrads in this position, but there it is.

I've never really understood this myself, and as I get older, it bothers me. I'm not sure if there's a better system, but I think it's terribly unfair to put girls, many of whom haven't even attended their first day of college, through this sort of pressure. It's not fate, it is NPC's way to mimic command/control economies, as James so stated it.

This is why I am a huge fan of Deferred Recruitment, and an even bigger fan of the NPHC's system of not allowing Freshmen to go through Recruitment. In those systems, you get to spend your first semester or year focusing on what you really came to college for.

[aopinthesky]

>>>Originally posted by James
I am not abolutely sure why the women have decided to develop a system that puts undergrads in this position, but there it is.<<<

No system is foolproof (all you have to do is take a look at our last Presidential election) and I do agree that deferred rush and the exclusion of freshmen are great ways to take some of the pressure off. Keep in mind, though, that this system that "the women" have developed does work for the majority. Granted, I think that over time it has worked less well. James, any woman who has participated in rush on either side knows full well what the flaws are.

[carnation]

Originally posted by AlphaXi4983
this is kinda off topic, but earlier someone mentioned that she watched "the cream of the crop" from her daughter's school get cut and her and all the other alum were wondering what happened.... sometimes those that would would consider a-list are only mediocre when they rush becuase of the quality of the other girls that go through, it just all depends on who goes through at what time.

(i dont mean to sound snotty or anything, cuz i would hardly be considered a-list, but sometimes thats just the reality)

It was probably either justamom or me. As for the girls in question--they were all top 5 grads at a large suburban high school, had incredible activities and community service, and were unquestionably gorgeous. These weren't situations where a girl was yearbook editor and no more at some little unknown high school (don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with that but we're comparing to Atlanta high schools now-which is what most of the UGa sororities do) and was then shocked because she hardly had any invitations.

[sailorpiphi]

Sorry but I ended up where I belong.
It sounds really stupid to say it now, however, rush was long for me and complicated and I was one very confused rushee, not knowing much going into it and the taboos etc.
My Rho Chis were awesome, two very different people and also very different from myself, however, after i went off and signed my bid card they told me,
we knew you belonged in Pi Phi from the start you were just confused at first!
The next day they were almost as excited as me to deliver me the bid from Pi Phi!
Looking back I really cant see myself anywhere else.
On a somewhat related note, on our campus we have the problem of saying,
when i went through rush the reason i knew i belonged in my house was because i just had that feeling you know? that feeling that this was where i belonged.
In my house we highly discourage anyone from saying that, not because some of us havent gotten that feeling (i for sure did!) but only because not everyone gets that all consuming magical feeling that this is where i belong

[AOcutiePi4ever]

Originally posted by carnation
It was probably either justamom or me. As for the girls in question--they were all top 5 grads at a large suburban high school, had incredible activities and community service, and were unquestionably gorgeous.

what would it matter how she looks?? i would hope it wouldn't make any rusher bat an eye... and if it does, that is pretty sad

[carnation]

I know it shouldn't matter but it often does, especially at selective schools. It's human nature--I've read several research studies that show that even infants will react more favorably to pictures of attractive people than pictures of those who aren't. And no, I don't want to get into a discussion of what constitutes attractiveness and what doesn't!

[justamom]

Originally posted by AOcutiePi4ever
what would it matter how she looks?? i would hope it wouldn't make any rusher bat an eye... and if it does, that is pretty sad

You are not being realistic. Maybe in a non competative environment it doesn't matter, but when you have apx 985 girls(the year they rushed) vying for a spot in 10 sororities with quota at 70, it IS a factor. Last year they upped quota to 75 or so.

Originally posted by AlphaXi4983-this is kinda off topic, but earlier someone mentioned that she watched "the cream of the crop" from her daughter's school get cut and her and all the other alum were wondering what happened.... sometimes those that would would consider a-list are only mediocre when they rush becuase of the quality of the other girls that go through, it just all depends on who goes through at what time.

(i dont mean to sound snotty or anything, cuz i would hardly be considered a-list, but sometimes thats just the reality)

The comment was mine, but Carnation saw the same thing happen with some girls from her daughters' HS. To clarify, our HS is known ALL over the state. Our graduates perform outstandingly. Our TOWN is not part of the NO, BR Laf. powerhouse but I repeat, our HS is.

The point of the comment WAS to illustrate just how darn competative it was that year AND how highly qualified the PNMs were. As just one example-Our Magna Cum Laude-Dance line Captain-Homecoming court-favorite-Blond hair/blue eyed beauty AND A LEGACY was cut by ALL the houses (legacy included) that our little area thought she was born and bred to join---- after open house! She droped out in the midde of round two parties...
I can assure you after following LSU rush for the past 10 years, there was nothing mediocre about them. I was more than pleased to see how successful my daughter's rush was. Call it shallow, but I actually wondered if the fact she wasn't on some kind of court would hurt her chances. Apparantly not.

So, you see the point you are making is true in a sense, but all things considered, I think it reinforces the concept that sometimes
there really isn't a specific reason a person is cut. Also, the fact remains that those girls most interested in rushing PROBABLY share common characteistics. Was it-imsohappythatimatheta-who said, "Rush is full of girls who have great resumes."? This is an undeniabe truth.

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by AOcutiePi4ever
what would it matter how she looks?? i would hope it wouldn't make any rusher bat an eye... and if it does, that is pretty sad

In a perfect world, it wouldn't but in this world it does. It's a shame, but it's true.

[shadokat]

The system may have flaws, and I'll agree that it sucks to get cut for whatever reason, but the system DOES work for the majority of schools and women. Yes, we hear about the bad more than the good, because when it works, we take that for granted. James, the fraternity free-for-all recruitment system is fine for fraternities, because that's the way you've always done it. And fraternities at many schools have chapters of such differing sizes, unlike sororities, that maybe that system is what will continue to work. NPC put in place a system to benefit both the PNM and the sorority, and honestly, I believe it works 95% of the time.

[33girl]

Originally posted by James
However, the potential to make friends may not overcome the fact that a chapter has a lower social status in the eyes of the PNM and maybe even in the eyes of the campus. In that case its perfectly understandable for the woman not to want to join, and we shouldn't be pressuring them to do so.

But if everyone who wanted to join XYZ COULD join it, would they still have a higher social status? Would there even be levels of social status at all?

Munchkin03, I am happy to see that you are on the Deferred Rush Express with me.

[AchtungBaby80]

Wow...after reading about all these A-list girls getting cut by every single house, I'm starting to think it's a wonder I made it through myself!

[PNMsMom]

Just a suggestion, but do you think a girl's family's social status might have anything to do with her being invited back? Are A-list girls cut because another girl is a debutante or because her family is a regular feature on the society page?

[rosejoy]

I am not sure how it works in other states, but I do know that at ECU debs were given some preferential treatment during rush. Due to being in Raleigh for the state "coming out" events our debs missed ther first couple parties of rush. All the sororities wanted them and none would cut them unless they did not have the grades. When they came for third party they were allowed to choose who they wanted to pref.

My sorority was not considered "lower tier" but was kind of in the middle. We got a lot of girls who were not unhappy to be in our group, but perhaps it was not their first or second choice. We have two houses that get most of the debs .
One friend of mine, a deb, could not go to her first choice because of her grades. Although AOPi was not her top choice, she took the bid and ended up being one of our strongest members...very involved.

I will agree that if a girl's heart is not in it, though then she should not pledge a house in which she is totally unhappy.

I have definitely seen girls at the "top" houses that have lousy personalities etc, and it makes you wonder how wonderful girls get passed up. Its also ridiculous how girls are seen as more or less attractive depending on what house they are in. We had some beautiful girls, but were not known for it. We were the "cool, laid back house"

[pinkyphimu]

i don't know if deferred rush is the answer. i rushed as a sophomore bc we weren't allowed to rush as freshmen. honestly, i think that most women went through rush already knowing where they were going to be. at a school with more glos, perhaps this would be different. there was no "open-mindedness" going through rush at my school. basically, it was you were between 2 different houses (either a or b; or c, d) all along or you were hoping to get into a or b, but if you didn't you dropped out.

edited to add:
on a campus with 1000 PNMs and 10 houses....it sounds like there need to be more groups...and i do know that no group would go near lsu due to the amount of resources that need to be put in up front, but maybe if 3 or 4 groups went on at once, that would even things out a bit.