What to tell overconfident PNMs

[Titchou]

I hate it when they don't make the call. I'm old school enough to believe it's the right thing to do. But I've been around long enough to know that logistically for some chapters, it isn't that simple. Chapters that have 50-60 or more legacies coming thru face a real challenge. And not just any adviser can make the calls. Most groups require it to be a particular adviser and she's already busy....if it was 5-6,that's one thing. But 20 or so, my heart goes out to them. I've had to make that phone call and I sure wouldn't want to have to make multiple ones on the same night.

[carnation]

Here's the hard thing about making the call: you can't say why they were cut, even if you know why. Often, it was just a numbers thing. That one hurts because the alum might know that 500 girls are coming back to the next set of parties and all she can think of is that the chapter liked at least 500 girls better than her daughter.

Or the real reason might be something sordid, such as her daughter has a horrible reputation--and the alum might not realize this. I know local girls who've been totally cut out of recruitment for photos they put on Instagram or Facebook. No one wanted to be the one to enlighten Mom that her daughter had posted a photo of herself peeing in a sink!

[ivyrose2]

I understand that so well, Titchou. But actives need to understand that the mom could possibly never forget the hurt. And that lack of courtesy was done to someone that is supposed to be a sister. Someone who you hope someday might see your letters on your resume and give you a break, or when you need a promotion or some introductions and could link you to an opportunity. Someone whose alum sisters will ask her why her daughter pledged someone else and who may also be in the position someday to help you with a connection or an opportunity. Someone who (along with her alum sisters) for sure will get a letter to contribute to undergrad scholarships or undergrad assistance funds. And no one took the 2 minutes to give her the courtesy phone call. In my day, it was the unpleasant job of the advisor and I understand now why it is so important that is is done.

[ivyrose2]

Yup, it's a hard phone call-no one said it was easy. IMO it needs to be made regardless, and the alum advisor is a perfect one to do that deed. The specifics do not need to be shared.

[carnation]

I know they don't have to be but I have friends who've had the mom screaming, "WHY? WHY? I am going to sue every one of you!" or accusing them of various things. This is why many sororities don't give the call anymore.

I get what you're saying. I have many Greek daughters and recruitment was rough for a couple of them.

[Titchou]

Originally Posted by carnation

I know they don't have to be but I have friends who've had the mom screaming, "WHY? WHY? I am going to sue every one of you!" or accusing them of various things. This is why many sororities don't give the call anymore.

I get what you're saying. I have many Greek daughters and recruitment was rough for a couple of them.

Exactly! And it's rarely a 2 minute phone call...it can go on and on and on. I had one that did. It was horrible. And thankfully it was the only one I had to make that year. My heart does go out to those advisers who have to sit thru multiple ones.

[ivyrose2]

Carnation, feel free to move this discussion to another section, if you feel the need to, since it is somewhat off topic, but it is timely and might be an interesting topic for actives (and pmns) and alums to read, as it gives both sides a chance to see the other's perspective (and for pmns that rush is not a given, even if a legacy).

[carnation]

We've had several threads on alums making the call: should they, what to say, why most groups have quit, etc. but I haven't seen them lately.

[QueenD]

I've been the recruitment advisor before and while I haven't been in a position where making such a call would be necessary, I must admit I have very mixed feelings about the value of making such calls. I fall in the camp that feels this treads a little farther into sharing specific membership selection details outside the group of people who need to know. I also have known of more than one PNM who actually ranked their legacy house too low to get a pref invite or bid, but lied to their mother/legacy relationship and told them that their org cut them. That particular kettle of fish is quite messy.

[33girl]

^You would hope that the mom or whoever would have the smarts to realize that her chapter has not been frozen in amber for the last 25 years, or that the chapter at mom's alma mater and daughter's school have never had anything in common except their letters. IMO it would be more upsetting to have a daughter pledge your org, hate it and drop out.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by 33girl

^You would hope that the mom or whoever would have the smarts to realize that her chapter has not been frozen in amber for the last 25 years, or that the chapter at mom's alma mater and daughter's school have never had anything in common except their letters. IMO it would be more upsetting to have a daughter pledge your org, hate it and drop out.

It would also be nice if mothers recognize that their daughters are different people, with minds of their own, and allow their daughters to make not-my-group decisions without guilt trips or repercussions.

[IndianaSigKap]

I have been on the advisor end of that phone call before. One time the alum was so stunned that she got off the phone very quickly. The other quick one was less than 5 minutes but since it was a grandmother, and it was not grandmother's chapter. She was very nice about it. Two other times, not so much. While I am glad I made the calls and avoided drama later in the process, they are not easy calls.

[Titchou]

Yeah, it would also be nice to find a cure for cancer....but neither of these things are happening any time soon....

[clemsongirl]

Having been a PNM recently with a legacy connection, although not an advisor, I think the phone call should go away entirely. I find it hypocritical that we tell parents to let their daughters get their own recommendations, not to helicopter, that on the university level information isn't given to parents unless they have a FERPA waiver from the student, etc, but that some sororities and chapters still tell the legacy relative about a recruitment decision that is ultimately not theirs. It should be the PNM's place to break that news however she chooses to do so, and I don't think the chapter needs to be involved in that process. I understand that the legacy relative is still a sister and it might not be easy news to take, but I think the PNM's right to conduct her own recruitment trumps the legacy's right to hear from that chapter.

More personally, the chapter making that call inserts them into what could be a potentially fraught relationship between the PNM and the legacy relative. Just because mom was willing to write a legacy recommendation doesn't mean mom and daughter are necessarily on good terms, and the chapter letting mom know what happened could strain that relationship further. We just don't know.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by clemsongirl

It should be the PNM's place to break that news however she chooses to do so, and I don't think the chapter needs to be involved in that process. I understand that the legacy relative is still a sister and it might not be easy news to take, but I think the PNM's right to conduct her own recruitment trumps the legacy's right to hear from that chapter.

I agree with everything you wrote, clemsongirl. I find the current process even more troubling when the legacy relative finds out before the PNM herself.