School Daze question.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by orighu

are you sure about that? i'm gonna echo what others have said - PLEASE do some research. HBCU's were founded because blacks were not allowed to attend the white universities - but i would bet there are African American families that have college degrees older than your fraternity.

Yeah but there isn't a substantial amount of blacks who received college degrees in the 1800s and early to mid 1900s--so no need to debate a point based on what are perceived as outliers to a generality. Shinerbock's post was an exaggeration but I understand what he was getting at.

The general point is that blacks were overwhelmingly shut out of most social institutions back then. There was a very small percentage of blacks matriculating at historically white colleges and universities back then and a larger percentage matriculating at whichever HBCUs were already founded.

[shinerbock]

Yeah, my point was that I don't think it was the IFC fraternities denying membership to blacks in the late 1800's. Thats not to say they would have been welcome, but I don't think the IFC fraternities at the time even had the opportunity to reject their membership.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Yeah, my point was that I don't think it was the IFC fraternities denying membership to blacks in the late 1800's. Thats not to say they would have been welcome, but I don't think the IFC fraternities at the time even had the opportunity to reject their membership.

It is called a self-fulfilling prophecy. You (meaning: the powerful whites who hoarded the opportunities) don't allow them into your institutions of higher learning in the first place so you don't have to worry about them trying to join your fraternities and other organizations once they get there. It didn't have to be the IFC fraternity men themselves but they were a product of their environment and cashed in on their privilege.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My fraternity still has never had a black person

I believe you mean to say your CHAPTER has never had a black member.

And even with that qualifier, honey, you might be surprised.

[shinerbock]

My apologies, my chapter has never had a black member. Trust me, not only can I assure you of that, but I can tell you the 2 IFC fraternities at my school that have had black members. Well, I can't say who was in my fraternity before about 1965, but given the situation of the period, I find it highly unlikely.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

My apologies, my chapter has never had a black member. Trust me, not only can I assure you of that, but I can tell you the 2 IFC fraternities at my school that have had black members. Well, I can't say who was in my fraternity before about 1965, but given the situation of the period, I find it highly unlikely.

Are you POSITIVE?

[shinerbock]

Haha, yes I am. It simply doesn't happen much(understatement) on that campus.

[Xidelt]

I believe I did just refute the poster's view by showing how civic and community-minded my experience with NPHC groups has been. None of the experiences I have had fall under the categories of 1. thuggish 2. gang-bangin' 3. racial-inequality.


The University of Georgia is an excellent institution. It does not graduate accusatory people. The University must be failing in its mission when it is admitting/not graduating well-rounded students. It just frustrates me when I see examples of ignorance. And if the history of NPHC groups does not interest you, as I believe you stated earlier in this thread, then why do you continue posting and/or relating your experience with these groups?

My only hope is that you are very early in your college career.

[shinerbock]

Actually, despite my ridiculous ignorance, I'm pursuing a professional degree, on scholarship, at your preciously open minded university. Unfortunately, it seems the University of Georgia also graduates people who have achieved the proper state of tolerance, unless of course it is a conservative viewpoint. When I mentioned the the term "thug____", I was referring to a post made before me about how other people interpret NPHC groups. I'm sorry, but having big gatherings on campus where you freestyle and play loud rap music probably seems that way to many. My point was that at my school (and I imagine others) they display merely the party/racial pride side of their organization, and not the other aspects. Now, I could understand if you think all fraternities should diversify, or if you disagree with my feeling that IFC and NPC groups are the original greek life orgs, and that NPHC groups should be included too. What I have trouble with is your ridiculous mentality of thinking that people like me (conservative, who don't feel every group must be integrated by force, nor classified by unifying terms) is some sort of backwards redneck racist. I love people who preach tolerance, but then don't actually hold the attribute they use to degrade others.

[Xidelt]

You said I didn't refute the post about the groups being thuggish. I believe I did. I simply don't believe you have enough info on these groups to classify them. You yourself said you don't know anything about their history and don't care to know anything about them. I still wonder why you choose to keep posting on these issues in this thread. You have not addressed the points I have posed. I also wonder why you would form an opinion and then argue it based on very limited observations. Obviously you haven't had any meaningful interactions with the NPHC groups. You haven't attended any of their functions or don't have any friends in their groups. You are basing it on what you've seen and what you've heard from other people.

Also, I haven't stated any of my personal opinions about politics, affirmative action, diversity, rights of private groups, etc. You are reading into my posts and forming what you think are my opinions. I have also never made any statements on your politics, nor have I called you a redneck racist. Those are your own words. I have made no statements about your political views.

[shinerbock]

What questions have you posed? If you're interested enough to post them in line by line form I might better be able to answer them (and I happily will). You haven't refuted my point about them being "thuggish" because I never said they were. I said to some I'm sure they appear as such, and gave credit to the notion that probably is not an accurate portrayal of everything they do. Regarding why I keep posting, you're correct, it isn't out of interest into NPHC groups. Rather, it is in response to those who consider viewpoints like mine racist or backwards. Now, if I have wrongly projected some of what others have directed towards me as something you said, I apologize. However, I think you have referred to me several times as ignorant and I believe the term racist has come up. You are correct in that I don't know everything about NPHC groups, but I never claimed to. I never made a full judgement on them, other than to say they seem very different than the greek community I was in. Alright, as I said, if you really want answers to questions, post them and I will gladly answer.

[bows&toes]

I made the comment earlier about most black fraternities that I have seen being more like a street gang then a traditional fraternity and that is due to personal experience on my campus, and other campuses my friends attend. I can bring up many different examples, such as a girl in my ex-gf house @ Oklahoma State which got shot because black fraternity members werent allowed at their private function. A guy pulled out a pistol and started shooting through the door of the party. I can recall numerous such instances at OSU, my school, and others. I'm not saying this has never happened @ an IFC chapter, but it doesn't seem nearly as frequent.

I also see much of the hip-hop culture that black fraternities try so often to emulate as contributing to the "thuggish/gangster" image and not something any respected IFC fraternity, especially in the south would tolerate. In my opinion there is nothing respectable about emulating criminals in a higher learning institution and then calling yourself a fraternity which is supposed to be the cream of the crop of any given campus. Don't get me wrong, I like hip-hop at parties as dancing music and all, but there is a difference between listening to music and trying to live it.

I feel like these are a few of the many factors that give your organizations the image of being thuggish. I will repeat what I said earlier, i'm basing all this on my personal experience and I realize that not all black chapters fall into this category. This is my OPINION, and an honest one at that, I will not beat around the bush and be PC about it so i'm sorry if I hurt anybodys feelings.

[bows&toes]

Originally Posted by Xidelt

You are basing it on what you've seen and what you've heard from other people.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but aren't most opinions based on what you and your friends see and hear??