Atheists as members?

[shinerbock]

K Star, thats fine, it just means you might not be right for our org. I personally don't care someone's opinion on the "under God" debate, the reason I referenced Newdow is because he is so outwardly opposed to any use of religious reference in the public arena. Someone like that would probably make a similar fuss over some of the things said in our organization, and therefore I'd prefer not have them.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
Yes, that's right. I was referring to God the Father, creator of the Universe as being the Allah to which Muslims refer. However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong. I mean, I guess if she really felt like it, she could call her God "Joe-Bob" and it would still be the same thing as long as she personally knows who she is worshipping. But, in purely linguistic terms, "Allah" = "God."

Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

It still boils down to the fact that if a person Associates and is Initiated, they are a Member and hold to those ideals or work within a frame work of The Organization.

[kddani]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

No it is not. That's the point. It can be called by the same name depending on the translation, but it is NOT THE SAME.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by ADSigMel
However, my point wasn't about what "God" means, it was just to say that when Arab Christians worship, they say "Allah," not "God." So, in that sense, the entity that the poster to whom I replied could call her God by the name Allah, and it would not be wrong.

I realize that. I was posting more out of concern for how what you first posted might be construed, rather than what I understood you to be saying as such. I have a little more thought on the matter, but rather than highjack this thread anymore (other than what's below), I've PM'd you.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Maybe people should figure out, that no Matter what The Supreme Being is called, it is the same thing.

Except that it's not, Tom. To say it is shows disrespect for sincerely-held religious beliefs by glossing over distinctive and differing beliefs rather than by actually trying to understand them. It amounts to ignorance and disrespect masquarading as tolerance and acceptance.

[shinerbock]

Well, he's kinda right. The idea is the same sure, and in Christianity and Judaism, God, Yahweh, is the same. However, for example, Allah and God (Christian) may seem to be as "Supreme Beings" but further examination would lead to the conclusion that they obviously have different characteristics and personalities (referring to God's personality is kinda weird). I think it is Christians who claim the difference, as Muslims have told me that we worship the same God. However, from my religious perspective, Muslims mistakenly attributed their false religious beliefs on to God, and therefore worship what would be a non existant version of my God. For the record, I'm not trashing Muslims, but I had to say that to display how they differentiate for me and probably some other Christians who feel simililarly.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by shinerbock
Well, he's kinda right. The idea is the same sure, and in Christianity and Judaism, God, Yahweh, is the same.

Except that Christians claim that Jesus is YHWH -- something Jews and Muslims would catagorically deny and perhaps even consider blasphemous.

Just as one example.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Except that Christians claim that Jesus is YHWH -- something Jews and Muslims would catagorically deny and perhaps even consider blasphemous.

Just as one example.

Not all Christians claim that Jesus was/is divine. Furthermore, there has never been any scripitual evidence (i'm discounting a forced mistranslation of Genesis) that "trinity" is "real." (I used quotes b/c I'm not Christian)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Not all Christians claim that Jesus was/is divine.

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

[RU OX Alum]

Unitarian Universialist. Right there in the name. Unitarian. Not Trinitarian.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

The post above responses to this.

For example, King's Chapel in Boston. They edited the book of common prayer to become "Anglican in worship, Congregasional in polity, and Unitarian in Theology."

During the reformation, many Unitarians were burnt at the stake for being the wrong kind of Christian.

The Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations does not claim to be christian. YOu don't have to be christian to be a UU.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

The Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations does not claim to be christian. YOu don't have to be christian to be a UU.

You just agreed with AlphaFrog, you know that? She said that Christian denominations DO all view Jesus as divine, and then challenged you to provide the name of one Christian denomination that doesn't. The example you provided is not a Christian denomination. So, the two of you are pretty much on the same page.

I hate that I helped perpetuate this hijacking. The thread is about Atheism and membership, not about the specifics of different religions. I'm all for an intelligent discussion about such differences, but perhaps that should be its own thread... maybe in Chit Chat?

Back on topic, I think the question of what each member's religious preference is should be an issue to be dealt with only by that member. If someone is Atheist and joins a group that requires, for example, oaths to be sworn over a Bible, then it is up to that person to decide whether he/she is comfortable with that. If the person is a good brother/sister, it shouldn't matter to the chapter whether or not he/she prays and if so, to whom. Just my two cents.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

Well the Cathars did for one, which is why the Church went after them.... but on a more modern note many denomonations that follow Gnostic teachings believe in the divinity of Jesus, but not that he was divine - or more simply that he was divinly created and guided, but not he himself of God...

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Well the Cathars did for one, which is why the Church went after them.... but on a more modern note many denomonations that follow Gnostic teachings believe in the divinity of Jesus, but not that he was divine - or more simply that he was divinly created and guided, but not he himself of God...

Like I said before, name one. "Many denominations" doesn't help the cause. I could say "Many denominations drink gerbil blood and sacrifice emus on Tuesdays", but it doesn't mean anything, because you still haven't named anyone spesific.

ETA: And I'm talking on this side of Lincoln's assassination, not when people thought the Earth was flat.

[shinerbock]

Are you sure? I'm a Baptist, and one time consistant church attender, and I was always under the impression that Yahweh was God the Father. I have always understood that Jews and us have different views on it, that it is not to be spoken aloud by Jewish people, but I've never heard that Christians consider Yahweh to be Jesus.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by shinerbock
Are you sure? I'm a Baptist, and one time consistant church attender, and I was always under the impression that Yahweh was God the Father. I have always understood that Jews and us have different views on it, that it is not to be spoken aloud by Jewish people, but I've never heard that Christians consider Yahweh to be Jesus.

Quite sure. Reread the Gospel of John and see just how many times Jesus equates to himself the title "I Am," which is what YHWH means. As just one example, in John 8:58, Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I am. (It's much clearer in the Greek that he is intentionaly using the "I Am" appellation, but it still comes through in English.)

In Judaism, YHWH is the name of God, which as you said should not be spoken. And in Christianity, God the Father = YHWH, God the Son = YHWH, God the Spirit =YHWH, because even though Father, Son and Spirit are three, they are also one.