Hazing creates a sense of unity

[33girl]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
After the disclaimer and example you gave, you still stuck with your assertation that sorority hazing (in general) seemed meaner?

I would say that if someone's telling you every day that you're ugly and not worth anything, that's way meaner than getting hit w/ a water balloon (and going home and drying yourself off and forgetting about it).

[tunatartare]

When my little sister's class was pledging, I remember one of the girls in that new member class telling me about how her best friend was pledging a sorority at her school and that her friend was complaining that she was always sore because the sisters made them do ridiculous amounts of push ups and sit ups as punishment. The girl started to get scared that we were going to make them do push ups as well. That was the first and so far only time in my life when I have heard of sororities ever doing anything physical.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by 33girl
I would say that if someone's telling you every day that you're ugly and not worth anything, that's way meaner than getting hit w/ a water balloon (and going home and drying yourself off and forgetting about it).

This is your illustration and not the illustration provided by the poster I quoted.

But, plenty of fraternity men can tell you of how they were called ugly (for being too pale, too dark, too skinny, blah blah blah), demeaned, or called worthless while they were pledging. Their masculinity and/or sexuality was questioned while being pledged or they were told to "prove" how much of a man they are by being willing to objectify women.

Many of these men may not perceive it or articulate it in the same way that women perceive and articulate their experiences, partially because of gendered context and socialized communication differences, but I think there's little qualitative or quantitative difference.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by KLPDaisy
That was the first and so far only time in my life when I have heard of sororities ever doing anything physical.

I've "seen and heard" it all regarding women and men pledging.

[Drolefille]

I didn't give an example of sorority hazing. To me, the stuff guys tend to do isn't MEAN. Water balloons are (while still hazing) not a big deal to me. I wouldn't throw a fuss if it happened to me.

Everything I've heard about sorority hazing suggests a different attitude on the part of the hazers. Male hazers don't seem to be angry at the pledges even if they yell. There's not the same amount of emotion involved. Female hazers act like they hate the pledges and are disgusted by them.

Perhaps it's just behavioral differences. But its simply my unoffical observation and opinion.

/your results may vary

[AlphaFrog]

Originally posted by Drolefille
I didn't give an example of sorority hazing. To me, the stuff guys tend to do isn't MEAN. Water balloons are (while still hazing) not a big deal to me. I wouldn't throw a fuss if it happened to me.

Everything I've heard about sorority hazing suggests a different attitude on the part of the hazers. Male hazers don't seem to be angry at the pledges even if they yell. There's not the same amount of emotion involved. Female hazers act like they hate the pledges and are disgusted by them.

Perhaps it's just behavioral differences. But its simply my unoffical observation and opinion.

/your results may vary

I don't think it's the pledges that the women actually hate. They're taking their revenge for what was done to them. And girls tend to hold grudges, where guys just get over it. To quote one of the most famous hazing scenes ever from a movie: "I did it when I was a freshman, and you'll do it when you're seniors, but you're doing great. Now fry like bacon, you little freshman piggies. Fry!"

[Drolefille]

Originally posted by AlphaFrog
I don't think it's the pledges that the women actually hate. They're taking their revenge for what was done to them. And girls tend to hold grudges, where guys just get over it. To quote one of the most famous hazing scenes ever from a movie: "I did it when I was a freshman, and you'll do it when you're seniors, but you're doing great. Now fry like bacon, you little freshman piggies. Fry!"

Exactly! And I just meant there seems to be so much real feeling in it. LIke they really want you to suffer.

As my friends and I say: Girls are mean. Guys will fight and get over it, girls work at bringing you down until the day you die.

And while sometimes this has its good uses.. its generally a negative reaction.

[stormy]

Obviously since the chapters that haze so bad haven't died out yet, there are positives from hazing pledges. The frats and sororites that have difficult pledge periods are known on campus, its not a big secret who hazes and who doesn't. Still rushees sign their bids to the "hard" frats and sororities time and time again... and once the hazing starts, they don't quit. Because of this, I believe that hazing is not as big of a deal as most of you are making it. I've read a lot of the "anti-hazing" comments, and honestly, but if you have no experience with it, how can you judge whether it is effective or not? Same goes with the hazing groups, it isn't fair for you to judge the chapters that do not haze. It is a matter of choice for the fraternity or sorority to make amongst themselves. It is their risk, and their organization on the line, meaning there's no purpose in fighting about it.

[shinerbock]

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately in our presently pathetic and overly politically correct society, most people do not grasp the concept of having to work towards something. For a long time the long held American ideal of responsibility has been waning, and this is another example. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, people on this board and around the country still fail to accept the fact that the huge majority of "hazing" isn't making pledges eat disgusting things, harm themselves, betray their beliefs, or taking beatings. The large majority involves overcoming obstacles by working with people you are not comfortable with yet, thus building trust that can last a lifetime. It involves taking responsibility not only for yourself but also those with you, so that your actions effect everyone. Most "hazing" isn't to give the brothers some kicks, it is to allow for the continued strength of the organization. People will point out some guys saying that hazing ruined their lives, but I imagine for every one of those, you could find 10 alumni who say it was fun, productive, and self-esteem building. For those who do go through hazing, don't quit when it gets tough, the outcome isn't people with no self worth, but rather men of character who now have confidence and experience to build upon as they begin college life.

[DeltAlum]

If "hazing" was and is stuff like calling names, water balloons or even a little PT, the anti-hazing laws would never haven been inacted.

Unfortunately, people and groups don't know when to stop, things get harder, things get out of hand and people get killed.

That has nothing to do with Politically Correct.

Then there's that pesky old insurance stuff that everyone would rather overlook because it's so unfair.

So, here's a great idea. Let's ignore all of the laws and rules. Let's forget about insurance and liability.

Haze away. Be sure everyone "earns" his or her badge.

Then, when someone gets injured or killed, you (and your chapter, and your nationals and maybe even your parents) can pay for those millions of dollars in damages for the rest of your lives. Literally.

You think student loans are hard to pay off?

That wouldn't happen to us, you say? We don't do all of that.

Read the other threads in his forum.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Unfortunately, people and groups don't know when to stop, things get harder, things get out of hand and people get killed.

I agree.

[Drolefille]

Its kind of like your parents telling you: "Fine you can't handle no curfew, so now you're in at 9:00," after you do something stupid at midnight.

Or taking away the car or something.

The entire greek system is grounded because we couldn't handle it. Quite frankly I'm glad that our I-week is full of fun stuff and presents instead of hazing. I'm fairly certain that our founders didn't haze, so who gets to decide somewhere down the line that that's how pledges should "earn" it?

Originally posted by DeltAlum
If "hazing" was and is stuff like calling names, water balloons or even a little PT, the anti-hazing laws would never haven been inacted.

Unfortunately, people and groups don't know when to stop, things get harder, things get out of hand and people get killed.

That has nothing to do with Politically Correct.

Then there's that pesky old insurance stuff that everyone would rather overlook because it's so unfair.

So, here's a great idea. Let's ignore all of the laws and rules. Let's forget about insurance and liability.

Haze away. Be sure everyone "earns" his or her badge.

Then, when someone gets injured or killed, you (and your chapter, and your nationals and maybe even your parents) can pay for those millions of dollars in damages for the rest of your lives. Literally.

You think student loans are hard to pay off?

That wouldn't happen to us, you say? We don't do all of that.

Read the other threads in his forum.

[SoCalGirl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm fairly certain that our founders didn't haze, so who gets to decide somewhere down the line that that's how pledges should "earn" it?

That's the crazy thing though. I once read part of an SK History book, I think it was on eBay and there's was pages that you could read. It totally talked about how in the early years, like the first 25, Alpha chapter would do things like a fake initiation. There's no way a fake initiation wouldn't be considered hazing by today's standards. And since it was so early on the founders probably knew about it, if not started it. It shocked me and made me wonder what else they did that would not fly today.

[Drolefille]

I'd be most interested in finding one of those books! However I do believe there's a difference between the stuff that's been taken away, such as scavenger hunts, and the stuff that is strictly hazing.

I'll again say I love that our Iweek is happy and not mean

[SigKapCoug]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'd be most interested in finding one of those books! However I do believe there's a difference between the stuff that's been taken away, such as scavenger hunts, and the stuff that is strictly hazing.

I'll again say I love that our Iweek is happy and not mean

I remember we begged the older sisters to have a scavanger hunt or something fun like that (my pledge sister Emily said, "I WANT TO BE HAZED!!" lol). Since all "hazing" is not allowed, instead during Inspo Week, the NM get a night with each grade - a sophomore night, a junior night, a senior night, and play games and etc.