Bairds Manuel

[Coramoor]

That's true, but I am more interested in the early history of traditional greek life.

There is history with the newly developing system, but not nearly to the depth of fraternities/sororities established a hundred+ years ago.

[Erik P Conard]

John Robson and I discussed this at length when we were laying
plans to update Baird's. This is exactly how I beame so cynical about the hens' clubs, the metro chapters, and the general watering down. Then John up and died on me, and I could not find anyone remotely qualified and.or interested in the update and we were entering an anti-greek era...I moved career-wise &
out of state. And it languished for a decade under the aegis of
NIC (joke) who issued a half-assed attempt in '91. I am not at all
interested now, perhaps some filbert will pick it up but there will be a lot of roadblocks, such as
---what is a fraternity and what is a sorority?
---are they NIC, NPC or what, if any, conference or association?
---are they collegiate or a wannabee or undefinable?
---do we want to broaden the scope, i.e., break away from the
collegiate realm and deal with clubs?
---what is a chapter? Is it housed or have regular meetings?
---do they have membership lists? I recall that some of the
groups did not reply or even know who or how many they had
---do we count undergrad, grad, field, computer or what in terms
of members. Some "hens' clubs" recognize status by how
much jewelry the qualify for...to buy....from mama HQ. (ha)
---many are so hungry for acceptance, former latch-key kids, and
some of these outfits come in the back door.
Finally, there are so many angry people, mostly females, so
hostile that most of us sour with even the thought. We simply
will pass the torch--if there is a taker.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Coramoor
That's true, but I am more interested in the early history of traditional greek life.

There is history with the newly developing system, but not nearly to the depth of fraternities/sororities established a hundred+ years ago.

If you happen to be in Pittsburgh, the Pitt library has some of the older ones in the open stacks. That's probably more what you want.

[hoosier]

Once I had a late night gin soaked talk with Bill ______, the long-time exsec of DU. He had researched publishing an update, and he said that Baird's was a financial success in the editions that were listed as a "must buy" in the American Library Assn. (?) publication.

When the ALA didn't push it, sales were not too good or profitable.

Sometime we ought to discuss the two deceased monthly (?) publications about GLOs, and perhaps other attempts to publish for GLOs.

Any memories, our beloved Eric?

[ebayfan]

Pandora's box opening here......beware....

Pin/badge collectors are extremely interested in this and would love to see a new edition of Baird's. One collector is currently selling a cd-rom on ebay of the first five editions of Baird's. He manually scanned five books and is selling it for pennies. Take a look. (I have no affiliation with this person)

Pin collectors use the books to look up chapters and figure out where badges came from and what year. Many of them are very knowledgeable about lots of groups (some are experts on extinct groups, others in Yale Societies etc). Some of these people even collect (gasp) rituals. Nothing new there - been done before by the guy who wrote a thesis on it. They are read for historical interest.

I personally know a half a dozen people who would volunteer to work on this project. All of whom are regional or national volunteers and officers of their fraternity. Of course the next Baird's would have to be done on cd-rom. The amount of paper needed would be cost prohibitive.

ebayfan

[NebraskaDelt]

Originally posted by ebayfan
One collector is currently selling a cd-rom on ebay of the first five editions of Baird's. He manually scanned five books and is selling it for pennies. Take a look. (I have no affiliation with this person)

How long did it take him to scan all of those pages from 5 editions? Where did he get the five editions, school library? Good for him wasting all that time to scan those pages.

[ebayfan]

Originally posted by NebraskaDelt
How long did it take him to scan all of those pages from 5 editions? Where did he get the five editions, school library? Good for him wasting all that time to scan those pages.

Dunno. I actually do not know him personally. Many collectors own every edition of Baird's which I presume he does as well. His ebay name is an acronym for something like Int'l Greek Letter Society something or other. I am sure he would answer your questions if you email him through ebay. I don't know the auction # but a search in title of "Baird's Manual" and cd-rom should find it.

[strubbe]

I just searched the UCF library online, and we have a copy.

[tinydancer]

My local public library has a copy - you might check with one near you.

[strubbe]

http://www.greekpages.com/resources/bairds.html

Dunno how accurate or reliable this is, but I figured I'd post it for those interested.

[AXi1257]

I have a few copies of Baird's... 1991, 1953, 1930. I have the CD-rom coming... I'll let you know if it's good... it's only $13.00 with shipping so why not check it out? The older copies have some good history stuff... espeically about GLO that are now extinct. The 1991 is not that great...not many updates and typos found. Pretty general history. I found all of mine on Ebay if I remember right.

[Erik P Conard]

I am very pleased to see the interest shown in Baird's and the
thought of undertaking an update. The CD thing seems like a real bargain. I had all the editions but have given all mine away
to more active greeks. I think my '57 one was given me by Dick
Hall or Wilson Heller. I have yet the 18th and had gone through
it rather thoroughly, finding at least a hundred errors, picky, picky ole me, and was sending them to Robson (a wonderful guy, a Sig
Ep scholar, first rate).
The Baird and Banta outfits out of Menasha, Wisconsin were somewhat a closed shop, greek-wise. They represented the old
school of Beta and Phi Delt, not particularly friendly to newbies
like TKE, Sig Ep, Lambda Chi, nor the ailing Union Triad. But they
were good on history, and many chapters kept copies, files, of
"Banta's Greek Exchange" and " Fraternity Month" Dear readers,
if you have a basement, garage, closet....scour it for copies
which might've been saved. WONDERFUL source. Banta's were regularly subscribed to by fraternity headquarters and sent to each chapter as a 'perk.' Leland Publishers of St Paul did a real slick "Fraternity Month" also, much more attractive than the
old Banta. Leland Frederick Leland, past president of TKE, was the publisher and his wife, past president of AOII, Wilma Smith Leland, helped him. So far as I know these were the ONLY ones
publishing fraternity stuff and it was NIC-NPC oriented, Banta was the best historical-wise. Search your college libraries for the
Banta's Greek Exchange and Fraternity Month. They may have been tossed, but many colleges got 'em in the 50s I recall.
But I warn you. You will have a devil of a time with non-NIC groups as they simply do not keep the records and some are more concerned with jewelry sales than fraternalism. Some are
so private (St Elmo, St Anthony; Delta Psi, Delta Phi) they will not
answer letters. Yearbooks are generally poor as their histories are hastily written by undergrads with little background. Fraternity Month lasted about ten years, but the Greek Exchange
was closer to fifty years. Easy to check if you have one issue.
I would not be surprised if Menasha, Wisconsin or Ripon College
has all the Exchanges and U of Minn may have the Leland stuff.
At any rate, I think these publishers are archived somewhere. It
will take a real fraternity fruitcake to undertake this, I warn you.

[hoosier]

I thought maybe the Lelands had given their historical stuff to the U Minn. when they shut down/died.

A Google of the UMN library reveals over 300 listings, including:

"Fraternity gang rape :_sex, brotherhood, and privilege on campus /_

"The paedagogus :_a manual of fraternal education for pledges of Lambda Chi Alpha.

"The history of Phi Mu :_the first 130 years"

Might find something if all 300+ were checked.

Maybe the Leland stuff went to AOPi headqtrs. - maybe some AOPi will_ check there, and let us know.

I know that Stew Howe and Bill Bringham (?) SX exsec gave their stuff to U Ill.

[Tom Earp]

I have Bairds from 1932 to the newest 1991 (?).

The newest are not nearly as accurate as the Older ones!

They leave a lot to be desired but are much more expensive and thicker.

Once again the Time of quality has changed!

[honeychile]

I think a lot of the problem with the loss of quality is in the awkwardness of the book. Maybe if they went to two volumes, or even three, more GOOD information could be instilled.

The Alpha Delta Pi history (Loyally)is told in three volumes, and a fourth is due. Surely the entire fraternal system could benefit from the same divisions!