Go Greek, go gay

[Jestor]

Originally posted by InHocYall
Sigma Chi was based among other things on Christian values. I do not beleive that true fraternity can thrive when you are looking to 'date' brothers. As a brother in my chapter I prefer to preserve the prestige and tradition that have made us a top tier national fraternity. If you want to go progressive join some 'progressive' fraternity that was founded in 1998. I value tradition and am adapting my life to represent the ideals, not adjusting the ideals to modern times.

Homophobic much?

This is a pretty asinine argument, especially since Sigma Chi includes members who aren't any kind of Christian. Should they all be removed for not being Christian?

It's the same basic line of reasoning for gays in a fraternity or sorority.

Furthermore, I don't think most gay men would want to date within their own fraternity, but would seek to date outside the chapter, for reasons that should be fairly obvious.

And just so you know, I'm a moderate on the issue of gay rights. I don't think the country is ready to accept gay marriage, but I could see civil unions gradually spreading to the more liberal and maybe one or two moderate states in the current social climate. (This of course precludes those multitude of states that banned gay marriages with their recent passed amendments.)

[SigmaChiGuy]

Don't let this jag portray my fraternity this way. He speaks solely for himself.

Originally posted by InHocYall
Sigma Chi was based among other things on Christian values. I do not beleive that true fraternity can thrive when you are looking to 'date' brothers. As a brother in my chapter I prefer to preserve the prestige and tradition that have made us a top tier national fraternity. If you want to go progressive join some 'progressive' fraternity that was founded in 1998. I value tradition and am adapting my life to represent the ideals, not adjusting the ideals to modern times.

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by Jestor

Furthermore, I don't think most gay men would want to date within their own fraternity, but would seek to date outside the chapter, for reasons that should be fairly obvious.

I know several of the fraternities at GT have policies against dating within the chapter. Is this a common practice?

[gpb1874]

wow. so i guess this guy thinks all sigma chi's are christian and that gays can't be christian. that's a pretty narrow view of the world.

i've been working in student activities for 5 years now and there tend to be a lot of gay men in this field b/c it is very accepting and supportive of everyone who wants to help students grow and develop. we also talk with a lot of students about gay issues, whether it's a group wanting to improve gay presence on campus, a student who is coming out or the college republicans who want a heterosexual celebration.

after meeting a lot of gay professionals and getting to know them, i found out A LOT of them are fraternity members. they didn't join to date their brothers. that's like saying that all fraternity or sorority members must be gay b/c who would want to hang out with a bunch of the same sex all the time? they join for many of the same reasons you and i did, not for an immediate pool of people to date.

[Jestor]

Originally posted by OPhiARen3
I know several of the fraternities at GT have policies against dating within the chapter. Is this a common practice?

I don't know, to be honest. I'm sure other people would be able to give an answer though.

[gt04]

Originally posted by OPhiARen3
I know several of the fraternities at GT have policies against dating within the chapter. Is this a common practice?

That's really surprising to hear, and quite frankly, a bit disheartening. You would like to think that such bright students, in such an enlightened city as Atlanta, would think a bit differently.

I graduated from Tech in '04, and was active in my Chapter, as well as IFC the entire time that I was an undergraduate, yet never heard of this kind of thing from friends in other houses. I'm curious as to what "several" means in your post? Off the top of my head, I can think of eight or nine houses that have openly gay members. That's what, 25% of the IFC groups on campus?

My Chapter has multiple openly gay members, and I can't think of anything more offensive to them than someone standing up at a meeting and saying "I would like to amend our by-laws to state that so-and-so can't date anyone in the Chapter." Does that really need to be said? Do people really think if someone's gay they're out to have sex with every person they know?

And for what it's worth, having worked with Buck Cooke for a number of years, I can't say enough good things about him. Kappa Sigma is very lucky to not only have him as a member, but as a Chapter founder as well.

[33girl]

Originally posted by gt04
My Chapter has multiple openly gay members, and I can't think of anything more offensive to them than someone standing up at a meeting and saying "I would like to amend our by-laws to state that so-and-so can't date anyone in the Chapter." Does that really need to be said? Do people really think if someone's gay they're out to have sex with every person they know?

I don't think any names would be named. It's just something that usually comes up if that situation DOES occur and ends in a trainwreck. I believe that when we decided to have a chapter sweetheart, we put in our bylaws that it could not be a current boyfriend of a sister, just to avoid the drama that might ensue if we didn't spell that out.

And heaven knows that co-ed fraternities might be better off having such a rule in their bylaws too, but that is another thread

[AlphaFrog]

I believe trainwreck is the word of the day on GC.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by 33girl
And heaven knows that co-ed fraternities might be better off having such a rule in their bylaws too, but that is another thread

I do know that the co-ed pro-fac GLOs at UofT had (maybe still do) bylaws prohibiting the dating between active members -> all in an effort to I guess head of any drama within their respective chapters... so I can't really see a problem with that being extended to same-sex relationships within GLOs.

[lifesaver]

two of the undergrads that I currently advise in my fraternity dated last year. They were dating before they joined. About a year into it, they broke up. Ya know what? The chapter didnt close, they are both still very active and the chapter is still the top house on campus.

Either way (gay members, or gay members dating) it really isnt the end of the world.

[OPhiARen3]

Originally posted by gt04
That's really surprising to hear, and quite frankly, a bit disheartening. You would like to think that such bright students, in such an enlightened city as Atlanta, would think a bit differently.

I graduated from Tech in '04, and was active in my Chapter, as well as IFC the entire time that I was an undergraduate, yet never heard of this kind of thing from friends in other houses. I'm curious as to what "several" means in your post? Off the top of my head, I can think of eight or nine houses that have openly gay members. That's what, 25% of the IFC groups on campus?

My Chapter has multiple openly gay members, and I can't think of anything more offensive to them than someone standing up at a meeting and saying "I would like to amend our by-laws to state that so-and-so can't date anyone in the Chapter." Does that really need to be said? Do people really think if someone's gay they're out to have sex with every person they know?

And for what it's worth, having worked with Buck Cooke for a number of years, I can't say enough good things about him. Kappa Sigma is very lucky to not only have him as a member, but as a Chapter founder as well.

I don't think it's meant to be an offensive thing by any means. I don't know the exact numbers - I was told about the policies by a gay member of the Tech chapter of Phi Kappa Theta, who was in support of them. Dating between members of any organization can be a problem - this is why there are policies against it in office environments, after all.

And yeah, Buck Cooke does rock. While I've worked more with Danielle McDonald than with Buck, personally, my interactions with him have always been really positive - he's a great guy.

[dznat187]

this is a great topic and i am very happy to hear so many open-minded and acceping responses from fellow greeks.

have any of your campuses done the greek safe zone project or worked with Lambda 10 or done any other program to discuss homophobia within greek life? Just curious because I work in the student leadership and involvemetn office of my grad school and am talking with our GLBT services GA and our new greek advisor about doing soemthing on the topic. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[InHocYall]

I think that might be seen as forcing the issue and may be greeted with hostility by fraternities. School's have been exerting more and more control over GLO's and programming like that might be seen as the administration trying to stick its hand's into selections.

[dznat187]

the programs i am implimenting are going to be optional. i am just a grad student and have no control over any GLO's. i am also no part of the school or the administration moreso than a student leader and student affairs employee ( I do website design). With other offices, I am just going to try to have speakers so the topic is out there. Noone has to attend; they will not be forced. And the Greek Safe Zone project is like many schools' ALLY programs that are again optional and anyone who is interested is invited to come and be involved in the workshop and at the end, students would become certified members of the greek safe zone, who's objective is to keep the greek community safe for the GLBT community and to open dialogue on the topic within the greek community. There are there to be aware of any violence or extreme discrimination of GLBT greeks.

Also, why would you assume fraternities would be hostile about opeing the topic? I have talked to many fraternity men who think it is a great idea and have no problem talking about it, even as far as voicing concerns about gays in their fraternity. I think to say something like that, that fraternities will be hostile about discussing GLBT issues, is like saying all fraternity men are meat-head homophobics, when in many cases fraternity men are very open, especially when they have pledged their love and support to their brothers, who in actuality might be gay. In fact 1 in 10 men in this country is gay, so chances are each fraternity has at least one gay member whether he is out or not and by talking about the subject in a greek perspective, these members might feel more comfortable sharing themseleves with their brothers and the brothers can have some background in order to know how to react and feel open to ask questions.

I don't see this as a bad thing for fraternities at all. With so many stereotypes of greeks out there, elimintaing the homophobic label would be one less.

[kddani]

Originally posted by dznat187
In fact 1 in 10 men in this country is gay.

It's great that you want to work on educational programs, but before you do, please don't give out statistics that are not true or that are extremely misleading, such as this one. What you said is NOT a fact. I have no idea what percentage of men are gay in this country, nor do I care, but just because you've heard something somewhere doesn't make it a fact.

If there was a real statistic on this, chances are it would be much more precise than 1 in 10.