weird grammar question

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by The Truth
I have a question, too. It is about the apostrophe after an "s".

I learned that the apostrophe after the "s" shows the ownership held by more than one person. For example:

The Jones' dog died yesterday.

So because of this I have a pet peeve that has developed. When I see a "s" with an apostrophe after it just because, it bothers me. For example:

Mr. Jones' briefcase was left the building.

I'd love your feedback on this.

I've never heard that test on apostrophes after a proper noun ending in "s." It really doesn't make sense for the "s" after the apostrophe to indicate ownership by more than one person only where the proper noun ends in "s." In that case, it should be "The Joneses's (or the Joneses') house" (unless one treats "Jones" like "fish" or "deer," where the singular and the plural have the same form).

Strunk & White says always follow the apostrophe with an "s" to indicate possession, even after a proper noun that ends in "s." Fowler's Modern English Usage basically agrees, while noting that it used be common only to add an apostrophe (but no "s") to a proper noun ending in "s." Thus, these two sources would say: Mr. Jones's briefcase was left in the building. (Of course, they would also say to replace this passive sentence with an active one, "Mr. Jones left his briefcase in the building," but that's a different discussion. )

If I'm not mistaken, Lynn Truss of the popular Eats, Shoots & Leaves would not add an extra "s" after the apostrophe. So, she would say: Mr. Jones' briefcase was left in the building.

One rule I learned somewhere along the line is to punctuate it the way you would say it, which makes some sense to me. If you would pronounce an extra "s," then put an "s" after the apostrophe. That is, if you would say "Mr. Joneses briefcase was left in the building," then write "Mr. Jones's briefcase was left in the building." If, on the other hand, you would say "Mr. Jones briefcase was left in the building," then write "Mr. Jones' briefcase was left in the building."

For a fun time-waster, play Lynn Truss's Eats, Shoots & Leaves Punctuation Game.

[The Truth]

Originally posted by JenMarie
Isn't this correct though? We're talking about a briefcase and Mr. Jones owns it... so therefore there would be ownership.

I know what you are saying though about the "s."

See I was taught that it should be Mr. Jones's briefcase. The apostrophe after the "s" would signify more than one Jones. But I'm beginning to think that this might be one of those ta-ma-toe, ta-mah-toe things.

[valkyrie]

While we're at it, I'd like to voice my displeaure at people who put commas and periods outside the quotes, such as:

Susie said, "Hey, I think you're really swell".

FOR THE LOVE OF PUNCTUATION, STOP DOING THAT.

Also, WTF is up with people who think "each other" is one word? IT IS NOT.

[sageofages]

Originally posted by valkyrie
I'm not sure if it's old school or what, but I learned that when typing, it is proper to put two spaces after a period (or colon, but that's not as important). However, the Chicago Manual of Style dictates that one period after sentences is correct, and I think it's common (if not universal) to use one space in most publications. I am slowly trying to make the switch, but it's really difficult.

How many spaces do you put after a period?

It is always best to consult the stated manual of style that the company prefers.

In writing for publication, the common form is one space after a period.<space>

For business correspondence and other writing, it is two spaces after a period.<space><space>

If taking a typing test for a position (believe it or not required for many many government jobs!), it is important to ask what is required. Some tests will penalize you if you use the wrong style (<space> vs <space><space>) and count each mismatch as an error!!! One error per space in the word .

I know this one person I tested had a nwpm of -25 because although they typed 55 words a minute, they had too many errors. LOL. Yes we let him retest .

I perfer two spaces after each period.<space><space>

[Taualumna]

What's interesting is that in newspapers, the tab at the beginning of a paragraph looks like <space><space> rather than something larger (a standard tab on a word processing program such as Word is two and a half spaces (or is it three?), I think)

[LightBulb]

Not that I read this whole thread, but I use two spaces after periods, colons, and question marks.

But both are acceptable. We used one space at the local newspaper I interned at.



(Yea, I can help with grammar, I end sentences with prepositions! But I was an English major. Haha seriously. Can't you tell?)

[tinydancer]

Originally posted by LightBulb
(Yea, I can help with grammar, I end sentences with prepositions! But I was an English major. Haha seriously. Can't you tell?)

Always remember this:

A preposition is a word that you never end a sentence with.

[Sistermadly]

Two spaces when I'm not typing in a word processor. Most word processors put two spaces in there automatically, and that feature has kind of made me unlearn what I know is right.

[ladygreek]

Originally posted by tinydancer
I seem to remember being taught that you should not start a sentence with "and" or "but."

But I still do it anyway sometimes. (LOL)

Per my business writing instructor (yeah my job brought in an expert to give us a 3-week--is that even correct usage--seminar on business writing,) it is now proper to start a sentence with And or But. The reason is shorter sentences are easier to read in business communications and more emphatic.

To The Truth, I was also taught Mr. Jones's in the sentence you described.

Along those lines do you all say Founders Day, Founder's Day, or Founders' Day. In Delta we use Founders Day because it is considered descriptive rather than possessive.

The University of MN just went through a big discussion about this regarding a Scholars Walkway they were constucting. The final decision was no apostophe, but boy did those academians go back and forth.

[jess_pom]

Another question: what are the plural (not possesive) forms of these names?

Meyers
Shultz

Thanks!

[33girl]

The Meyerses and the Shutlzes are meeting us at The Tavern for a drink.

[jess_pom]

Originally posted by 33girl
The Meyerses and the Shutlzes are meeting us at The Tavern for a drink.

Thanks! Are they wearing matching pink Tavern shirts?

[33girl]

I hope so!!

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by tinydancer
I still put 2 spaces. However, remember that back when I learned to type, we still used manual typewriters. Yeah, that's really old school!

Uh. Me too.

Two spaces.

Oops. Sorry to hijack the hijack. Did't realize this thread was that old.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by ladygreek
Acually the one space is old school. That is what I was taught. Then it went to two spaces.

Yep, same for me... I was taught (on a manual typewriter) to leave one space between sentences. Then, after college, I was told to use two spaces by my boss when writing reports. Since I have a journalism background, this went against everything that'd I'd been taught, but I made the adjustment and now it's normal for me to use two spaces.

I still catch myself using one space occasionally, though.