compulsory military/peace service

alphachiohmy · #1 12-04-2001, 06:52 PM

Please help: I have a final project on arguing for and against cumpulsory service of some kind for United States youth. This service would be for at least a year.

Because there is such a wide range of experience and talent and brains on these gc boards, I pose this question to you:

What are your thoughts on compulsory service - arguments for and/or against?

DeltAlum · #2 12-04-2001, 07:21 PM

Ohmy...is right.

Only some of these are my thoughts and some that I've heard in the past.

A lot (most?) new high school graduates come into college or the work force with little or no direction and few skills at living outside their immediate family.

A year or two of compulsory service could add some maturity and experience to the decisions they make which will shape the rest of their lives. And I think that most graduates will tell you that they learn more in the first three to six months after graduation than they did during their entire college career.

Back in the mid 60's, my favorite English Prof said that all (our system of) college is good for is to keep us off the job market for a few years. He felt strongly that a couple (2 to 4, he said) years in the military (or Peace Corps, etc.) would give a young adult the opportunity to gain living skills and have a better idea of future career, etc. In those years a person should have time to learn time managment, visit some new places, have to fend for him/herself and would come to college with a much better understanding of him/herself and what he/she want to do in life.

That wasn't a real popular stance in the middle of the Vietnam era, and I'm not totally sold on it -- but when you look at the number of college students who haven't decided on their major or change majors in the middle of their college career (40 to 60% depending on the university) would seem to add some credence to his argument.

Having reported the above and risking sounding like a total hypocrite, as the father of a 17 year old high school senior, I don't know how I really feel about this topic.

Sorry,

Beef · #3 12-04-2001, 08:20 PM

While its not a bad concept, I dont think its really necessary here. Our military is up to the task of putting the hurt on anyone we see fit and any given time. And after the 11th, there is certainly no shortage of people that want to join up. While it would provide some training and direction to the youth, IMO thats not the militarys priority. Also, that is ALOT of people!!! Barracks, food ect ect would all require a substantial budget to support them. If the govt ever needed people to serve, the draft would be implemented, and the chances of that happening with anything short of another world war, are slim to none. There are plenty of people that will volunteer, including myself, if they see the need for more service men and women.

Off the topic alittle, taking a year off after highschool was the best thing I could have done. Even now, after returning after another 1 year break, I am more focused on getting my degree and have amuch better idea on where I am going with my life.

DeltAlum · #4 12-04-2001, 09:42 PM

Beef,

I agree. I'm not sure it would be good for the Army. The all volunteer, high tech services we have are working much better than when we had a draft. Simply stated, it takes more time to train service people today, and losing them after two years (the length of service under the most recent draft) is counterproductive. Our present system gives the services people with much more motivation and a higher level of intelligence.

Remember that my illustration was from a professor of mine in the 60's when we were in the middle of Vietnam and had a draft.

However, other possibilities besides the Armed Forces such as Americorps or the Peace Corps could come into play here also.

Perhaps things like religious missionary programs like the Mormons could be counted also.

And, I hope I'm not putting words in your mouth, but your comment about taking a year off after high school would seem to argue somewhat in favor of the concept.

Beef · #5 12-04-2001, 10:30 PM

My answer was somewhat one sided towards the military, but even including everything else, I dont think it should happen. I am quite certain that if someone chose to serve in any type of service org, they would be better off in the long run. Even just getting a full time job can give you that, but not quite to the same extent.

Some people know what they want to be when they go into college, some think they do, and alot dont... For me personally, after I graduated, I was going to go to a tech school for Autobody, but was hesistant to make that commitment. So I worked for a year and then decided to go to welding school, where I got a degree. That was exactly what I wanted at the time and lead to me basically getting my dream job. I was on cloud 9 there, but I got to the point where I wanted to know more about what I was doing and came to the conclusion that I wanted to go further than what I had would allow me too... So fast forward to now and I am a 24 year old somewhere in my soph. year of college working on an engineeing degree and I will be going into a field that 'should' fit me like a glove.

I dont think that my example necessarily falls into being in favor of compulsory service, but rather the idea of not just going into something blindly or 1/2 heartedly.

33girl · #6 12-05-2001, 12:01 AM

I completely disagree.

This is the United States of America, and we are guaranteed basic rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. These ideals are different for every individual. To require completion of anything "compulsory" with no real reward (i.e., you are requred to pass a driving test, but you get a driver's license out of it) contradicts everything we were founded on.

I know I am arguing, in a way, that everyone has the right to do absolutely nothing with his life. That's true. But that doesn't mean I think the government should pay for it. (that's another thread)

DeltAlum · #7 12-05-2001, 12:18 AM

Wish we'd thought of that argument while many 19 year olds were getting drafted. Many weren't particularly happy about it and it ended more than a few lives. Compulsory government service has been with us for a long time. I believe the draft started with the Civil War (not sure of that, though).

People in my generation were sent to jail or forced to leave the country when they tried to avoid it.

I said I don't know whether I agree with the newest concept, but the fact is that the argument is moot since there is ample precedence for forced government service.

I'm sure that the draft was challanged in the legal system and was affirmed.

SigKapSweetie · #8 12-05-2001, 12:28 AM

How about the philosophy from Starship Troopers? "Serve and receive citizenship." Those who don't want to serve our country shouldn't get to vote in it either. (In this example, 'citizenship' is defined as being a member of the country able to vote or hold political office; where 'civilians' live in the country legally, they can't do either of these things.) I think this would be only fair. If you don't care enough to defend our country, you shouldn't get a say in how it's run.

About the technology in the military these days; you've got a point. Only some of the candidates would be able to learn how to use it in a short enough time for this to be practical. However, we have plenty of 'manpower' jobs they could fulfill: coastguard patrol, infantrymen, peacecorps employees, UN/US employees, BORDER patrol (we're totally understaffed there), etc.

USA love,
Dale

Beef · #9 12-05-2001, 12:44 AM

Compulsory service and the draft, atleast in terms of this thread are totally different. Being "forced" into service when there is no crisis or war going on is one thing, being drafted DURING a war is totally different IMO. If the government were to re-instate the draft there is going to be a pretty damn good reason for it. That is the point at which the citizens that have been protected and received all the benefits of our great country have the duty to "pay back" the country if asked to do so. Not doing so would be like saying, "I like the freedom that thousands have died to protect, but I wont fight for it."

DeltAlum · #10 12-05-2001, 12:01 PM

OK, one final time.

I said I'm undecided, so I'm not arguing for or against compusory service at this point in time. Simply pointing out some things I've heard in the past and would take into consideration if I had to make a decision.

However there are some things you may not realize not having lived through it. First, the draft was a constant in war and peace until it was ended in the 70's. It didn't go away between conflicts. The quotas changed according to need, but the system stayed in place and many were drafted in peacetime. Thus, compulsory military service in times of peace.

Second, until 1968 the voting age was 21 and the draft age was 18 (the average age of a draftee was 19 and HE -- women weren't drafted -- was likely to be a minority with a high school education or less), so until that time you could be drafted but could not vote. The fact that many of my generation were dying for their country before they were "old enough" to vote was one of the big reasons for changing the voting age downward. The line went something like, "We're old enough to kill and die for our country, but not old enough to vote."

Just for the record.

PKTSU01 · #11 12-05-2001, 04:15 PM

I think it's a great idea, but it won't ever happen. The U.S. is the epitome of choice, and requiring military participation completely blows that notion out of the water. A bud of mine originally from Cyprus was required to be in the military for two years. I gotta say, he was more mature and had a better grip on his own existence and impact on society than I did when i was 18. That kind of experience makes you grow up quick I suppose.

Another reason i'm all for it is the often pathetic set of life skills kids in this country have when they leave high school. Sure, a kid might get a 1400 on his or her SAT's, but knows NOTHING about what it will take to be sucessful in this world. Come on, how many "smart" kids do you or did you know in college who got A's but were completely oblivious to everyone else surrounding them? My high school was a few blocks from a military base and we had a good amount of faculty that were in armed services , and i have to say, it set my ass straight when i was a young punk entering high school. I think the discipline instilled would be fantastic, but like I said, it isn't likely to happen.

alphachiohmy · #12 12-09-2001, 03:58 PM

This is my editorial in favor of compulsory education. Please offer feedback. Now, I have to write one against the idea. Back to MS Word I go. Pls remembre, this is not my belief, but I had to argue this solidly. Please let me know if I have done that.

The United States is the land of the free, but our freedoms have come too quickly and too easily to today’s youth. They are without discipline, without character and without leadership.

A compulsory service requirement would remedy that and result in a generation of more responsible and more reliable young adults.

We believe a year of service should be required of all youth in the United States as they graduate high school or turn 18. They would be required to enter the armed forces or a government-based service program like Americorps or the Peace Corps. They would be paid minimally, provided with living accommodations and eligible for college tuition assistance.

This program could be in place in as little as four years, giving the U.S. government ample time to organize a service program and rules and regulations.

Currently, there are no compulsory military service laws in the United States. The idea of forced service, which had been required during times of war, was reestablished in the United States in 1940, as the country prepared to enter World War II. This draft remained law through the 1960s. In 1973, President Richard Nixon suspended the draft; in the late 1970s Congress completely ceased the practice.

The strength of the United States military has suffered since the elimination of the draft. According to U.S. Department of Defense's personnel statistics, the combined number of men and women serving in the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force dropped 32 percent between 1980 and 2000.

U.S. citizens have an obligation to the country. It is each citizen’s national duty to work in defending the nation or working for peace in the name of the United States. Unfortunately, today’s youth are strangers to patriotism. The do not know how lucky they are to live in our country. We believe required service would instill in them a greater sense of pride in the nation.
A required service would also help give others a greater understanding of the function of the military. Currently, there is a rough relationship between civilian and military life. Civilians once out of service would have a better respect for their countrymen as well as their nation when such service is required.

People against compulsory service argue that such a requirement would infringe on the human rights of our citizens. But the country has already instated compulsory education. Like compulsory education, a service requirement is essential to the United States. If there were no compulsory education laws, illiteracy would run rampant. Well, in today’s youth laziness and irresponsibility run rampant. The perfect solution to that would be a required term of service.

Like lessons in a classroom, lessons from compulsory service are integral and invaluable.

A required term of service would give youth today the tools they need to be responsible, contributing members of society. They would learn leadership skills from negotiating a training course in Army basic training. They would learn compassion by working with inner city school children or by feeding the homeless. They would learn how to make decisions on their own. They would learn how to work as a team and how to function on their own as individuals. They would have a better sense of themselves and humankind as a whole.

A year of compulsory service would also add maturity to decisions that young adults make in regard to their futures. Today, college graduates have squeaked by college classes and enter the work force dumbfounded. Statistics have shown that a significant number of people make several career changes and decisions after obtaining college degrees. With a year of required service, youth would be in much better shape to attend college. After a year of service, a young adult would enter a university with a much better understanding of who they are and what they wanted his or her career to be. Their education on the books would supplement the real-life education gained in serving the nation.

And that education gained from compulsory service would result in new generations of patriotic, determined and strong citizens with a great love of the United States. Our nation would be stronger, better and more prepared for the future.

DeltAlum · #13 12-09-2001, 07:54 PM

AlphiChi,

Pretty good, but I think there is one flaw. The downsizing of the armed forces was more a function of budget cutting than lack of compulsory service (The Draft). That's why in present day conflicts there is much more emphasis on the Reserves, National Guard and the use of "smart" weapons as opposed to large numbers of troops.

As the Cold War scaled down and the former Soviet Union fell apart, Congress was less inclined to spend the money to keep the services at previous levels.