High school hazing on The Early Show - Page 9

snuggles12 · #**121** 05-08-2003, 05:41 PM

So if you show up, you allow the seniors to beat you up and you do not put up a fight (from the video it seems like none of the jurniors fought back). If you do not participate during the hazing session, and they come after you later, do the juniors fight back?

What is the benefit of getting beat up? Wouldn't you get more respect if you fought back?

And AXJules - thanks for the insight about this situation.

Quote:

Originally posted by AXJules
No, if you don't show up then the girl that challenged you or whoever kinda tracks you down over the next couple of weeks and things are settled. Sometimes they talk it out, sometiems they fight. In all honesty, I can only think of 4 or 5 girls that didn't show up in the 4 years I was there.

You forget that when you graduate you don't leave for school the next day. You're there all summer, hanging out with the same people, attending all the huge parties. You have to run into these people for the next 3 months.

LXAAlum · #**122** 05-08-2003, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AXJules
But because a couple girls went crazy and sadistic doesn't change the quality of the school.

Tell that to the consumers of the media.

You think that at CSU, where a fraternity chapter was closed for allegedly sneaking GHB into drinks (later PROVEN to be a false accusation) - the CSU students remember anything of the quality of the chapter, OR, do they remember "oh, those were the date-rape-drug guys, right?"

Again, quality doesn't mean anything to anyone other than the students at this point. The quality of education is taking a distant second to the problems of hazing. Thank the media in part, but the girls as well, for not having brains enough to realize what they were doing (seniors and juniors alike), and the school - now trying to cower behind the "what were we supposed to do" defense.

AXJules · #**123** 05-08-2003, 06:00 PM

Again you misread my post.
I am fully aware that our reputation will be indefinitely tarnished. But the way PiPhi wrote it, she insinuated that we have an undeserved reputation of being great. And that is simply untrue.

AXJules · #**124** 05-08-2003, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by snuggles12
So if you show up, you allow the seniors to beat you up and you do not put up a fight (from the video it seems like none of the jurniors fought back). If you do not participate during the hazing session, and they come after you later, do the juniors fight back?

What is the benefit of getting beat up? Wouldn't you get more respect if you fought back?

And AXJules - thanks for the insight about this situation.

Ok well please keep in mind this year wasn't the norm, but anyway....
the benefit of getting beaten up at Powder puff is that its a one on one thing. Business is kept between the people that its between. If you don't go, a group will come after you later.
At Powder puff you do usually fight back, and it doesn't last long, just to prove you're willing to stick up for yourself.

The girls didn't fight back on the tape b/c this year was so brutal and there was a mob waiting to get them if they did. In previous years there was no violence (unless you and one girl had something to settle) and so there was nothing to fight back about.

Also, about pressing charges against every person that was there- the event is usually pretty spread out across a field. Sometimes there will be 2 or 3 circles far away from each other. So, you can have one girl fighting off by the trees where no one can see, and another circle cluelessly getting flour dumped on their heads in good fun. Obviously what the tape showed was about 60 people in one group, but there was another 2 circles of senior/junior girls just drinking with the guys off camera that weren't having anything done to them. (I'm talking like half a mile away ont he other side of the field.) They couldn't even see what was going on until it was almost over.

LXAAlum · #**125** 05-08-2003, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AXJules
Again you misread my post.
I am fully aware that our reputation will be indefinitely tarnished. But the way PiPhi wrote it, she insinuated that we have an undeserved reputation of being great. And that is simply untrue.

Not misreading at all. It's the old saying that "perception is reality".

I've been there. I know what it's like. You feel like you're defending the indefensible. But remember, the actions of a few have destroyed the good the many have worked hard for.

Lady Pi Phi · #**126** 05-08-2003, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LXAAlum
Not misreading at all. It's the old saying that "perception is reality".

I've been there. I know what it's like. You feel like you're defending the indefensible. But remember, the actions of a few have destroyed the good the many have worked hard for.

This is what I was trying to say. Humberside (my highschool) has/had the same reputation as GBN. To many outside the community it is still a great school, and parents that live outside the catchment (sp?) area are still trying to get there kids in. Now it's not so hard because those already ready enrolled in the school are leaving. 1/3 of my class transfered schools, at least 1/4 of my brothers class including my brother transfered schools because frankly Humberside went down the drain. It only takes a few people to destroy what so many have worked hard for.
I;m not saying the GBN has an undeserved reputation all I'm saying is that maybe many people in the community have been oblivious to the happenings at this school. All it takes is a teacher throwing themselves down the stairs to go on disability and blaming white supremicists (sp?), the neo-nazi students coming out of the word work, sever hazing resulting in assult charges (all Himberside, plus more). Now adays, one bad apple does spoil the whole bunch.

DeltaBetaBaby · #**127** 05-08-2003, 10:03 PM

This is what the rumormill has to say right now:

1. These students can not participate in school functions for the rest of the year, but will graduate as scheduled, and participate in commencement.

2. Several of these girls are worried about having their college acceptances revoked. An Illinois state school can't do this AFAIK, but they could lose financial aid.

3. Five people videotaped the event. Four tapes were destroyed, and the fifth was sold to the media by a participant.

33girl · #**128** 05-08-2003, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
1/3 of my class transfered schools, at least 1/4 of my brothers class including my brother transfered schools because frankly Humberside went down the drain.

OK, maybe it's different because it's Canada, but how can you just "transfer" schools...is this a private high school? I mean, here where you live is the district you're in and that's it, unless you pay lots of $$$$ to another high school to go there, which is stupid cause you're having to pay twice. Or you can go to a private or religious school. But if you're in the GBN district, that's where you will go. I doubt that parents will all move out of the district just cause of this...

DeltAlum · #**129** 05-08-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, maybe it's different because it's Canada, but how can you just "transfer" schools...is this a private high school? I mean, here where you live is the district you're in and that's it, unless you pay lots of $$$$ to another high school to go there, which is stupid cause you're having to pay twice. Or you can go to a private or religious school. But if you're in the GBN district, that's where you will go. I doubt that parents will all move out of the district just cause of this...

In Colorado, you can often attend any high school in your district, and can transfer without having to pay any tuition. Also, the Colorado Legislature just passed a school voucher bill which will allow cross district attendance and transfering.

Lady Pi Phi · #**130** 05-08-2003, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 33girl
OK, maybe it's different because it's Canada, but how can you just "transfer" schools...is this a private high school? I mean, here where you live is the district you're in and that's it, unless you pay lots of $$$$ to another high school to go there, which is stupid cause you're having to pay twice. Or you can go to a private or religious school. But if you're in the GBN district, that's where you will go. I doubt that parents will all move out of the district just cause of this...

Humberside is a public school. It used to be that way. There used to be many problems with people out of the catchment area that wanted to go to Humberside. Now students can just pick up and leave and go to any school in the city of Toronto

MoxieGrrl · #**131** 05-08-2003, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by momoftwo
The Chicago Tribune is reporting that police are investigating whether parents provided the alcohol (which happens more than it should in our neck of the woods, IMHO) and gathered the fecal matter.

So the Tribune is suggesting that the parents had something to do with the collection of fecal matter? If that is true, that is seriously messed up.

"Mom, could you collect some #2 for me?"
"Sure hon."

There should be limits to a parents love. That might be it.

Kevin · #**132** 05-09-2003, 12:06 AM

I think it's great that they're talking about this stuff in the open. I heard one of the talking heads from stophazing.org saying that hazing at colleges was actually on the decline! So for the most part they are acknowledging that we (the former major source of college hazing) have been fairly successful in self-policing.

DeltAlum · #**133** 05-09-2003, 12:19 AM

Some thoughts.

What is striking about this story to me is how easily an allegedly "traditional" hazing ritual can so suddenly go terribly wrong. That's why I feel that there should be NO hazing. At all.

This school, apparantely is one of real excellence, (By the way, who rates a school #3 or whatever, by the way, and what are the criteria. I suspect that a lot of schools think they're in the "top ten," whatever that means. The biggest school in our district had 43 National Merit Scholars last year and has over 90 state athletic championships -- does that put it in the "top ten" Sorry, I digress.). But now, GBN will be remembered for this event. Remember Columbine? Much the same kind of school -- but what is the first thing you think of now? Not the same, you say? Absolutely true, but what if one or more of the girls had been more seriously injured, or even killed? Oh, and by the way again, the alleged "reason" for Columbine was the bullying and hazing of the two gunmen throughout their high school careers. They weren't in the "cool" group.

Think that potentially deadly senario couldn't have happened with all of the people around? Then why didn't people -- as a group -- step in? Maybe one person would have gotten beaten up if he/she tried to intercede -- but not if the group decided enough is enough. So, why didn't they? Ever read Lord of the Flies?

I agree with LXA Alum. This is highly disturbing. Not knowing anything about Illinois law, I don't know if the school can be held accountable -- but it should. The shirts being worn are a damning issue. Colleges have been taken to court for alcohol and hazing issues that occurred off campus. Again, refering to Columbine, the school, faculty and principal were highly faulted for not recognizing and stopping the events that led up to the tragedy there. Ever hear of In Loco Parentis? We, as a society, expect our schools to look out for the welfare of the students we send them. The administration should have been more proactive over the past several years. Most of what has been described as happening over that time could reasonably be considered assault.

I find it difficult to find any reasonable explaination for this.

Peaches-n-Cream · #**134** 05-09-2003, 12:31 AM

Good points, DeltAlum.

DeltaBetaBaby · #**135** 05-09-2003, 01:17 AM

My big's little biological sister was asked to participate last year, when she was a junior. She said no. That was the end of it. Nobody drove to her house and beat her up, nobody taunted her in the hallways, nobody even knew except the senior that had invited her. All she missed out on was a chance to be a hazer this year.