Advice to rushers: re: legacies

[honeychile]

When I re-read your post, I saw the "if they've filled out the proper paperwork," and realized my mistake. Point well taken, S.

[adpiucf]

Wouldn't we get bogged down in minutia if we established levels of legacy status? Is the daughter of a regional director going to get priority placement over the daughter of a chapter adviser? The member who has served as President of her assoc. for one term as opposed to the association member who has contributed $1000s to the Foundation or the one who has planned the Annual Philanthropy fundraiser for the last 10 years? Where do we draw the line? And what makes those members any better than someone who hasn't been as involved, but has filled out the same paperwork? What about the uninvolved member who has been a pillar of the community and involved with other worthy causes? Is her recommendation for her legacy of less value?

And then, what about the PNM herself? Her legacy sister may boast wonderful accomplishments, but what about that PNM is compelling enough to cause the chapter to say-- yes-- we want you! Not just because you are a legacy, but because of your background and accomplishments and the fact that we can really see you as our friend and sister, wearing these letters.

I truly believe the value of legacy status is as a respectful nod to the member. Any PNM must meet the minimum requirements set for membership by the sorority and the campus Panhellenic and stand out on her own. Recommendations, legacies, etc., get your foot in the door, but ultimately, a chapter is only as strong as the members it recruits. And the decision should be up to the chapter so long as they adhere to sorority and Panhellenic standards.

[NutBrnHair]

I happen not to agree with the statement that all legacies are equal. They are not equal because each PNM has her own record of what she's accomplished for the first 18+ years of her life AND they aren't equal because each one has relatives with varying degrees of involvement.

Now, yes, they are equal to the degree that they all should be invited back to the second round, etc., but to say that a mediocre legacy is going to the top of the Bid List does not do that girl any favors. In my experience, the chapter who doesn't have a good record on pledging their own legacies is either a.) not a competitive group on campus, or b.) resents the fact that they were coerced into pledging mediocre legacies in the past.

I would hope that as a super-involved alumna of my sorority, my daughter would be given more consideration. That's the way life is. If the President of the House Corporation for 25 years has a daughter coming through -- is she not going to be given more attention than someone who has never updated her name/address?

How do our groups select the Model Initiate for Convention? If all legacies were equal, my guess is that there would be hundreds each year up for consideration. But no, in our case anyway, a woman is selected who is an outstanding individual and has many involved Chi Omega relatives.

[honeychile]

I honestly think that the usage of the word Legacy needs to be reviewed, by each GLO separately, and then by the NPC.

A hundred years ago, there were few women in college in the first place, let alone having a daughter who also went to college. That's about FIVE generations of legacies who could have been born and bred. Some of those legacies could be wonderful, some could be awful, some could be the daughters (great-granddaughters) of Founders, some might not even know that they are legacies.

Let's face it - with so many more women going to college, having more legacies than quota is an easy possibility! So, somehow, some way, a new way of "flagging" legacies needs to happen. If we've had so many arguments about what consists of a legacy, and how much consideration should be given one, I can only imagine what each large chapter goes through!

[NutBrnHair]

Originally posted by honeychile
So, somehow, some way, a new way of "flagging" legacies needs to happen.

Perhaps just a small tattoo of Greek letters at birth? LOL

[WLFEO]

Originally posted by honeychile
having more legacies than quota is an easy possibility!

That truly does happen and I'm sure it's happening to more GLOs than just ADPi. It's just a really hard situation all around.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by NutBrnHair
Perhaps just a small tattoo of Greek letters at birth? LOL

"Bid me or Die!!"

[alum]

Originally posted by honeychile
I honestly think that the usage of the word Legacy needs to be reviewed, by each GLO separately, and then by the NPC.

I believe that different GLOs have different definitions of legacies. My own group defines it as a mother, sister, grandmother. Other GLOs extend it to aunt, cousin as well. So if my sister and I had joined certain groups, my daughter would be a double leg. whereas she is only a single through the mom connection. Even more telling is my chapter friend whose mom and 3 sisters pledged the same GLO. HER daughter is considered a double legacy but in other groups would be a quintuple. BTW, my friend and I are both extrememly involved in our respective alumnae ass'ns.

[FSUZeta]

networking.

it happens with employment, membership to country clubs, elks clubs,etc., admission to colleges and membership in sororities and fraternities.

legacies of graduates of many universities and colleges are given extra consideration for admission, providing other things are equal(grades, sat scores, volunteer hours, activities and awards). if the family has made contributions to the school or funded the new international business building and serves on the board of directors. their child is more likely than not to get extra consideration. there is an established history with the school & the parent(or parents) actively makes contributions to the school, either money, time or both. every admission is a role of the dice, and someone whose family has a history with the college, will appear to be a safer bet. the same can be said of fraternal legacies.

if a parent has stayed active with their fraternity or sorority, contributed time and money, volunteered their time either locally or nationally, their legacy probably understands that membership is for a lifetime. they have seen that the fraternity/sorority member values their membership and places a high priority on remaining involved. the legacy, most likely, has had discussions with their involved relative and understands what membership entails. their relative has set a good example for them.

if it boils down to two legacies,equal in every way, vying for the last remaining spot on the first bid list, who would you choose? one is the legacy of a very involved alumna, and the other found out the week of recruitment that she is a legacy, i would vote for legacy #1. it is a gamble anyway, legacy or not. i would place my bet on the girl who has seen first hand, devotion to the sorority. she has had a fine example set for her, and hopefully thinks that going above and beyond is the norm.

[Zillini]

Originally posted by 33girl
That to me sounds almost like bribery - "you stay active and go to alum chapter meetings and keep paying yearly dues, we'll get your daughter in." Regardless of what the daughter herself brings to the table. I don't think that is right.

Heavens no, that's not what I meant at all. As I said I'd look at the reasons why the actives wanted to drop the PNM in question more closely, that's all. In actuality I review Recs and Legacy Intros for every legacy that falls on the drop list. We also require Province Director approval to drop a legacy.

Also to be clear, Bama is one of those schools that has large numbers of legacies coming through every year. It's a tough competitive Recruitment. Every PNM is highly scrutinized and truly needs to stand out. All I'm suggesting is that it would only benefit a PNM if an alum makes herself known and there's alot of ways to do that that don't require much time, effort or even being there in person.

But that's still not a "lock" to get a bid. Ultimately it's the actives' decision, not mine and I'll stand behind them. If the Grand President's granddaughter came through and if there wasn't a shadow of a doubt that she would not make a good member, I'd support the their desire to drop her. (Don't know how well it would go over with TPTB though.)

A few years back we dropped the niece of a former Chapter Advisor, House Corp Pres and incredibly active local alum. (Technically not a legacy, but still it was a difficult situation.) This young woman was simply not a good fit. The Aunt was furious and refuses to step foot inside the house ever again. I learned the niece joined another GLO and was very happy there, but apparently that doesn't matter to the Aunt.

[33girl]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
if it boils down to two legacies,equal in every way, vying for the last remaining spot on the first bid list, who would you choose? one is the legacy of a very involved alumna, and the other found out the week of recruitment that she is a legacy, i would vote for legacy #1. it is a gamble anyway, legacy or not. i would place my bet on the girl who has seen first hand, devotion to the sorority. she has had a fine example set for her, and hopefully thinks that going above and beyond is the norm.

I would vote for the girl who herself has made more of an impression on me. Sometimes dynamic mothers have very blah daughters. And there's also the possibility that the daughter's being forced to rush, not really wanting to. She might also resent the sorority because her mom's spent more time with it than her. At any rate, I would never say daughter of superinvolved mom = better member.

I agree with honeychile that the usage of the word legacy needs to be reviewed, especially for those groups with chapters where more legs come through than they could ever bid.

[FSUZeta]

but remember, i said that both girls were equal, with the exception that one had had a relative who made a lifetime commitment to her sorority and the other a relative who had not. both these hypothetical pnms were equally gifted( academically, looks, extra curriculars and personality wise).

[33girl]

Originally posted by FSUZeta
but remember, i said that both girls were equal, with the exception that one had had a relative who made a lifetime commitment to her sorority and the other a relative who had not. both these hypothetical pnms were equally gifted( academically, looks, extra curriculars and personality wise).

I don't think two girls could ever be equal personality wise. If they could, we would have a much easier time giving out bids in general.

There is always that extra "something" in a girl that makes you like A more than B - even if it's so small as to be infinitesimal. That to me is far more important than anything her mother has done.

[adpiucf]

Originally posted by 33girl
I don't think two girls could ever be equal personality wise. If they could, we would have a much easier time giving out bids in general.

There is always that extra "something" in a girl that makes you like A more than B - even if it's so small as to be infinitesimal. That to me is far more important than anything her mother has done.

Agreed. But I can see everyone's point-- where it not expressly on a paper legacy recommendation that one legacy is weighted higher than another due to her legacy sister's level of involvement, it seems that politics do play a role in selection. I guess that is true of any organization with membership requirements and selection (nepotism in the workplace, university alumni, sorority alumnae, country club membership, etc...)

[AGDee]

We had an International Vice President whose daughters both went through recruitment at an extremely competitive southern school while she was in office and it was stressful for everybody. She didn't want to pressure her daughters into becoming Alpha Gams and she didn't want the chapter to feel pressured since she was an International officer. I never asked for details of their recruitment, but I do know they both ended up Alpha Gams.

This is a tough one for me. The only day I can think of that would be more special than the birth of my children would be the day my daughter was initiated into Alpha Gamma Delta. It's a hope and dream of mine, although I wouldn't push it on her. I bleed red, buff and green and can't think of anything more special than having my own daughter be a member. At 12, she is on the right path to living the ideals of our Purpose because she is a straight A student, active in Girl Scouts, band, and yearbook club. She has a lot of friends and has always found a niche wherever she went, even though she's shy when she first meets people. She's a very down to earth girl and, if she doesn't change drastically over the next 6 years, would be a leader and an asset to any chapter. Of course, I'm her mother so I'm biased, but her teachers, Girl Scout leaders, etc. all rave about what a good kid she is, so I have some objective opinions about her too. I would have a hard time if I knew that a group of sisters dropped her from recruitment.

Right now though, she has goals of going to Harvard, so unless we colonize there, it won't be a possibility... Unless we do AI for her...lol.

Dee