High school hazing on The Early Show

[sugar and spice]

Let's look at this rationally.

This was not a school-sanctioned event. It didn't happen on school grounds, during school hours, and it had nothing to do with school activities. What is the school supposed to do? Obviously they knew when it was going to happen, if what AXJules is telling us is true. But so did the police, according to what she says. But nobody knew where it was supposed to take place. So how could the school have prevented it?

The school is telling us that it couldn't have stopped this because the second it admits that it had anything to do with it, they open themselves up to a flood of lawsuits. Which is -- in my opinion, at least -- ridiculous. Why should the school be held responsible? It had nothing to do with the school. It had to do with these kids, and they are the ones who should be punished.

Schools should not be responsible for punishing children for what they do outside of school. That should be up to the law. That's what it's there for.

[AXJules]

Originally posted by LXAAlum
I think you WILL see students kicked out of school, or at least suspended, and not given the privilege of attending commencement at the very leasts.

The PR fallout from this is so condemning, they can't possibly do nothing, nor issue a slap on the wrist. This story is world-wide. The school, the principal most likely, and many seniors fate is sealed.

I see a LOT of legal problems coming the way of the participants AND the school. Especially the school. This is an "age-old tradition", as you seem to describe it, so it is ludicrous to assume the school was ignorant. The participants would wear shirts TO SCHOOL prior to the event. Another reason to conclude the school could not be aware.

Because of the way our code is written, I would highly highly doubt it if the school is held accountable. I would see a few lawsuits coming the way of the parents, and a ton at the 5 or 6 girls. Maybe this is just from the way things have been handled before, I dunno...a willingly played game off school property that is not illegal can't be banned from our high school.

Students SIGNED statements about participating - very very dumb. Another nail in the coffin. Just because you know ahead of the fact that violence will be a part is not a defense. That's like a bank robber who kills a teller in a robbery that the teller should have seen it coming, because bank robberies can be violent.

I guess I don't understand how this is a nail in the coffin. The juniors are the one who sign a piece of paper saying they might get hurt and they know that.....the rules the seniors follow are unwritten and they usually don' t sign anything. If anything I would think this would hurt the cases of those who weren't injured, since their bodily results were expected.

AXJules - I'm not pointing any finger of blame in your general direction. In fact, based on my experiences in high school, any finger pointing would be best done in front of a mirror. But, this incident just goes to show how unexpectedly BAD an incident can become, regardless of "tradition" or "expectations."

I appreciate that...I am really feeling the wrath of some people's attitudes on here. I chose to come on and explain what I could so that you're all more informed--this isn't easy for me to talk about either. Don't you think I knew half these people? Don't you think my friends little sisters were there? There was a reason my grade kept it alive, and that's b/c we were focused on keeping it fun. Obviously I think this year was despicable, but i think some of you are interpreting my posts as sticking up for the activity. I am not. I'm just trying to make you realize that you can't say the people who didn't stop it earlier are to blame when it was a
totally different thing.

One more thing-- I really am trying hard not to come off as though I'm arguing with everyone. But I was incredibly hurt by some of the attitudes and posts in this thread before I discovered it...and something tells me nothing would have changed unless I had posted.

[adduncan]

Originally posted by 33girl
Adrienne, with all due respect, you are not yet a member of a GLO and you have not seen how far some of the hazing rules go. So don't say all the choices made have been right, because they haven't, and I've seen chapters suffer for it.

You're right, I'm not a member, yet. A situation which is being rectified at this moment.

However, that status gives me an angle that most people on this board do not have: and that is objectivity. Just as the girls in this video/news report can not see the forest for the trees when it comes to their hazing, clinging to "tradition" at all costs, it is possible (I'M SAYING POSSIBLE ONLY, NOT DEFINITE) that that may also be the case with some GLOs who do the same thing.

I have never said, nor thought that everything the governing bodies did was 100% perfect. It can't be, because they're made up of mere mortal humans. I say there is room to give the NPC the benefit of the doubt when legislating guidelines for behaviour.

The ultimate point of the post you quoted was in the last line: if the attitude toward hazing represented in this thread and the news report is indicative of the next generation of GLO members, then the NPC, etc, have their work cut out for them. That's it. No judgement on the rightness or wrongness of those decisions. Just that they're going to be dealing w/ this issue for years to come and it will be a while before rules are laid out that keep everyone safe w/out chapters suffering as you described. I would like to think these sorry individuals will get blackballed from rush too. But think about it--browse the threads on GC that talk about psychotic sisters and other inappropriate/harmful behaviour. Bad eggs have slipped through and probably will continue to do so.

My opinion may change on this in coming years as I am initiated and participate in my org. On the other hand, it may not. But that's where it stands now.

Peace.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

[MoxieGrrl]

Originally posted by AXJules
Would you really, if there were about 15 girls AND guys standing above you waiting for you to escape???? No offense but if they are standing there with bats, blood, and who knows what else and you're seeing them KICK people, you are defniitely a stronger person than I am.

Yeah, I'm pretty crazy like that...and have really big muscles.

I do agree with whoever said this is on TV now because there is no other news happening. While this is a frightening situation, there are much bigger tragedies in the world that should be getting some press time.

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by AXJules
Because of the way our code is written, I would highly highly doubt it if the school is held accountable. I would see a few lawsuits coming the way of the parents, and a ton at the 5 or 6 girls. Maybe this is just from the way things have been handled before, I dunno...a willingly played game off school property that is not illegal can't be banned from our high school.

The school will be held accountable. Whether or not anyone thinks it's fair or not. The school KNEW this event happened. It happened between juniors and seniors of this school - not several schools. The fact that the school knew of this activity, and had put an official stop to it in the past, is enough grounds for a lawsuit that the school did NOTHING to stop this event.

I guess I don't understand how this is a nail in the coffin. The juniors are the one who sign a piece of paper saying they might get hurt and they know that.....the rules the seniors follow are unwritten and they usually don' t sign anything. If anything I would think this would hurt the cases of those who weren't injured, since their bodily results were expected.
I think these forms can be used by an attorney to demonstrate INTENT to injure. Just because they acknowledge it, doesn't make it right. The seniors are the ones trapped by the forms.

I appreciate that...I am really feeling the wrath of some people's attitudes on here. I chose to come on and explain what I could so that you're all more informed--this isn't easy for me to talk about either. Don't you think I knew half these people? Don't you think my friends little sisters were there? There was a reason my grade kept it alive, and that's b/c we were focused on keeping it fun. Obviously I think this year was despicable, but i think some of you are interpreting my posts as sticking up for the activity. I am not. I'm just trying to make you realize that you can't say the people who didn't stop it earlier are to blame when it was a totally different thing.

I know you're aren't sticking up for the activity. I too, have been stuck in your position, trying to defend a LXA chapter accused of something they could demonstrate they did NOT do (in your case, it's a little more difficult with a video on the airwaves). However, the allegations made the news. That's all it took. Goodbye charter. Goodbye 81 years of existence. The PR stink caused by allegations sealed the brothers' fate, with no recourse. It stinks, but it did create change in the campus greek system.

[AXJules]

OK thank you for explaining the intent forms thing....
but this I still don't get-

'The school will be held accountable. Whether or not anyone thinks it's fair or not. The school KNEW this event happened. It happened between juniors and seniors of this school - not several schools. The fact that the school knew of this activity, and had put an official stop to it in the past, is enough grounds for a lawsuit that the school did NOTHING to stop this event."

They originally held it at the school. It was going out of control, so they BANNED it. Once it moves off campus that's not their jurisdiction...aside from alerting the police the weekend it happens (which they do), theres nothing else they can do!

[momoftwo]

The Chicago Tribune is reporting that police are investigating whether parents provided the alcohol (which happens more than it should in our neck of the woods, IMHO) and gathered the fecal matter.

I'd heard that parents got the kegs. If the other is true, I'm even more ashamed of our community!

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by AXJules
OK thank you for explaining the intent forms thing....
but this I still don't get-

'The school will be held accountable. Whether or not anyone thinks it's fair or not. The school KNEW this event happened. It happened between juniors and seniors of this school - not several schools. The fact that the school knew of this activity, and had put an official stop to it in the past, is enough grounds for a lawsuit that the school did NOTHING to stop this event."

They originally held it at the school. It was going out of control, so they BANNED it. Once it moves off campus that's not their jurisdiction...aside from alerting the police the weekend it happens (which they do), theres nothing else they can do!

I think a lawyer will easily sway a jury on this one. Since the school was historically involved, saw the dangers, and then "banned" the event, yet they KNEW it still continued, is grounds for a lawsuit. Even though they tried to alert police, an attorney can still say it didn't go far enough.

Didn't the school issue threats of punishment? Is there any record of them actually following through on the threat for anyone since this event went underground? The school still knew it happened...that is the key.

A lawyer will use the video in front of the jury. The emotional shock of seeing children (how the jury will see them) throw human waste, punches, and baseball bat swings will be daming emotional testimony...

[adduncan]

Originally posted by LXAAlum
I think a lawyer will easily sway a jury on this one. Since the school was historically involved, saw the dangers, and then "banned" the event, yet they KNEW it still continued, is grounds for a lawsuit. Even though they tried to alert police, an attorney can still say it didn't go far enough.

Plus, depending on what the age of consent/assent laws are in Illinois, a lawyer may argue that minors can not sign such consents and make them legally binding.

Lawyers are going to make this *very* interesting, w/ a lot of side effects trickling down on other schools. I don't believe for a minute that this school is the only one w/ this type of situation.

Adrienne

[momoftwo]

Illinois law lets public school systems off the hook for most liability. While that doesn't stop somebody from trying to sue (running up legal fees for the taxpayers), it will be pretty hard to prevail.

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by adduncan
Plus, depending on what the age of consent/assent laws are in Illinois, a lawyer may argue that minors can not sign such consents and make them legally binding.

Adrienne

Even if they would be considered of legal age to sign such a form, the form would be proven null and void - you can't get someone to agree to participate in something that is inherently illegal, regardless of wording.

The point of all my ranting (for lack of a better term) is this:

The actions of a few, very few, or even ONE individual can have negative consequences for the entire organization, campus, community, GLO: local or international chapter, that NO means of explanation can make go away. The actions will ALWAYS reflect on the larger unit, whether fair or not.

[VirtuousErudite]

Originally posted by AXJules
Are you serious????
I'm sorry but there is a TOTAL difference between having paint and honey rubbed around in your hair, and being made to eat human feces.
Yes, they threw piss on them one year, but that was b/c the juniors ASKED for it. They heard about it from like 6 years earlier (someone's sister did it) and they were like, well since none of us have anyone we're fighting with, we want that. SERIOUSLY. It was like, we won't have any bruises, so give us something else to brag about..... messed up? Yes...I am SO glad I never got involved in it..
This year was malicious, in the past its all been in good fun. The girls know what they're getting into- this year they were caught totally off guard by some sickos that made things go out of control.

Yes I'm serious, the whole thing seems DERANGED!!!! by both parties. I still stand by the fact that EVERYONE who participates in this sorta strikes me as a little bit off mentally. Don't you have to touch feces to smear it on someone???? Give me a break, all these broads need to be in a psycho ward.

[Lady Pi Phi]

AXJules,

thanks for the information you provided.
But, this school sounds exactly like my highschool. My highschool is one of the top in the country, universities track it, so it bodes well when entering college or university. However, hazing has and does still continue at my school.
I think it's important that this story is on the national (and international news. It's all over the news here) because it lets the country know tht this stuff happenes everywhere, and I think it lets parents know that hey maybe their can't-do-no worng- kid is getting into some trouble or maybe their school isn't as great as they say it is.
My parents thought Humberside was the best school ever, until it started popping up on the news. They wouldn't believe me the neo-nazi Polish commandoes came strolling through the halls, or 2 12th grade boys that I knew decided to duct tape a 10th grader to a chair and then to the flag pole in the pouring rain and were charged with assult.
Just because GBN is known as one of the best schools in the country doesn't mean it is.

[AXJules]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi

Just because GBN is known as one of the best schools in the country doesn't mean it is.

Actually I think that's pretty much what means. This is a horrible thing, but our reputation is based on our track record before this. It just happened on Sunday.... We're known as one of the best schools b/c of our academics, sports, the quality of our students, etc. This hasn't been an ongoing problem, this hasn't happened before, and GBN IS one the best schools. Their reputation will be damaged, don't get me wrong. But because a couple girls went crazy and sadistic doesn't change the quality of the school.

[AXJules]

I found this pretty interesting.....sounds like the girls got it pretty bad last year, and wanted to "get revenge"....I don't understand that at all, with us we never wanted anyone to experience what our girls did.....but anyway here you go...

-This was taken from an article I was reading that was REALLY long....---

Student organized

That ban hasn't kept students from organizing the games at local forest preserves, although some Glenbrook North seniors said it's only in the past two years that the fun has turned violent.

"It started out as just hazing with ketchup and mustard, and people might get a few scratches, but it turned into pig intestines being wrapped around girls' necks," said Erin Lasday, who said she wasn't at Sunday's hazing, but has friends among those injured.

Kaitlin Getz, the senior class president, said she also stayed away from the fracas, but said she heard the seniors decided to take revenge for the beating they had received the year before, during a fight that featured scissors and buckets of vomit. "They were like, 'If we got it that bad, then we're going to do it equal or better," Getz said.

Riggle said school officials are well aware of the students' game organizing efforts and try to find out details, so they can alert the authorities and break up the game.

"The kids know we condemn it and we try to keep it from happening," he said. "Any time we have knowledge of activities that are detrimental to our students, we alert the authorities. We were not able to be as proactive as we'd like to have been this year."

Several students said participants paid about $35, money that got them special jerseys, as well as beer and other alcoholic beverages.

Lasday said every year, the seniors wear their T-shirts the Friday before the hazing, so she was surprised that school authorities didn't know the event was imminent. This year's shirt was the same as last year's, emblazoned with "Tequiza Pleasa," in reference to beer. "The school forces them to turn them inside out, because of" the shirts' message, Lasday said. "I don't know why" the appearance of the shirts would not"be a big hint" that something was about to happen.

Superintendent Hales said he's told that students wear the T-shirts several times a year, and talk about the powder puff game long before it is scheduled.

The Northbrook police first got word of the fracas on Sunday when a resident called at 1:30 p.m. to report that a "bunch of kids were in the forest preserve making a mess," Northbrook Police Sgt. Tony Matheny said Tuesday.