Expansion 2003 and Beyond

[Tom Earp]

J L, as I remember, you are the super sleuth on expansion!!

Need your nose to the ground!

[LXAAlum]

Not sure of expansion, but, we recently lost UNC Charlotte...

Colorado State University should be on LXA's radar - their agreement was for four years, which will be up soon - and that campus definitely needs LXA's return.

[JoinerLxa]

Maybe we should start a new thread for discussing
proposed legislation at GA, but some bills apply to this thread.

Bills #13 and #14 would allow for expansion to
institutions outside the U.S. and Canada. T

his could
get "dicey", but would further enhance the concept
of an "international" brotherhood. I'm not sure what
the long-range implications are of what is basically
a move to "new cultures"....would members/chapters
from different cultures hold the secrecy of the
initiation ritual in the esteem we do? Could foreign
government laws force public revelation of the
the ritual, or force chapters to be co-ed? I'm "for"
the idea in general, but would hope we would
"proceed with MUCH caution" on this issue,
and expand to other countries similiar to the
US and Canada, like UK, Austrailia, New Zealand,
etc. before trying Zimbabwe, Mongolia, or even
FRANCE! (Lord help us!)

Bills #15 would allow for chapters at Junior
Colleges, Community Colleges, technical schools,
and other such institituions

My first concern is, is this not against NIC rules?
I know in the past it was a major issue...NIC
(National Interfraternity Conference) does not
allow member fraternities to charter at such
institutions. A major exception was made when
Vincinnes Univ in Indiana went from 4-year to 2-year
status: it had the founding chapter of Sigma Pi.
The NIC granted Sigma Pi a special exception
to have this one chapter at a Jr. college.

Of course, two major fraternities left the NIC in the
past year: Phi Delta Theta and Kappa Sigma,
though not for this reason.

Second concern is we be very careful again....
will this mean opening chapters at ITT Tech?
For-Profit Business colleges? Auto Mechanics
school? Beauty (Cosmetologist) schools? As stated,
it's vague: "technical schools and other such
institutions."

OK, I threw it out...any comments??

Kevin

[Tom Earp]

Kevin, I was also very concerned about that piece of Legislation. Is it not hard enough for IHQ to get ELCs around. Granted We ahve a Chapter in Alaska but not Hawai as is to far. What about States and Proveinces of USA and Canada where there are no Chapters? I think that should be The First Priority instead of going out of USA and Canada.

It also seems like there will be NO Exec. Sec. So I wonder who the Point Person will be for LXA at all of the Funtions that have to be attended.

Another is a minimum of twenty Members or have to pay for twenty members to keep Charter. Worried about smaller Chapters such as mine for one at this time.

Badges will be owned by International LXA, hm, sounds like PHC, (Soroitys) to me.

As usual, everything is written in semi legalese and hard to follow.

Allowing another Panel of members made up of High Alphas who are to meet at least once a year. Who pays for these meetings and transportation?

There seem to be a lot of questions from this Brother!

[EM1843]

As for the Council of Pres. Our Alpha is the VP, it seems like it could be a good idea.

I don't like the 20 member min either. We were at 12 at one point and that would have killed us.

I think INT should work on getting ELC to all chapters, ours included, we haven't had a visit in over a year before going more international. And also they should help strugglng chapters recruit, before opening new chapters.

My 2 cents...

ps just let INT claim my badge is "theirs"...

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Kevin, I was also very concerned about that piece of Legislation. Is it not hard enough for IHQ to get ELCs around. Granted We ahve a Chapter in Alaska but not Hawai as is to far. What about States and Proveinces of USA and Canada where there are no Chapters? I think that should be The First Priority instead of going out of USA and Canada.

Let me be the first to volunteer to visit these states where we might have chapters or colonies if no ELC is available!

It also seems like there will be NO Exec. Sec. So I wonder who the Point Person will be for LXA at all of the Funtions that have to be attended.

Another is a minimum of twenty Members or have to pay for twenty members to keep Charter. Worried about smaller Chapters such as mine for one at this time.

Badges will be owned by International LXA, hm, sounds like PHC, (Soroitys) to me.

I wonder if they have to follow "ex post facto" laws in regards to this - in that IF this is passed, only badges sold after the passage will be considered LXA property, but not those sold before....it is a legal argument they have to be aware of

As usual, everything is written in semi legalese and hard to follow.

Allowing another Panel of members made up of High Alphas who are to meet at least once a year. Who pays for these meetings and transportation?

Why can't they do what the GHZ does - most of these Executive Board meetings are held via teleconference - or perhaps they could regionalize the meetings, all following the same agenda?

There seem to be a lot of questions from this Brother!

[lifesaver]

I just skimmed the legislation.. so heres my inital thoughts....

1) Council of Presidents. I like the idea of of a council of presidents. Am undecided on the necessity of making the chair and co-chairs of presidents councils GHZ members. Am all for increased voice of undergrads at the GHZ level, but I need to be convinced that this is the most effective way. Could the SAC be better used in this role of an increased voice at the undergrad level? I AM NOT supportive of the idea of raising undergraduate dues to fund the presidents council. Yes they need operating funds. But I would rather have the gf staff decide what their budget is, vs. by policy. They would be the only part of the fraternity with its own legislatively decreed independent budget and there might be times or years where that money could be put to better use. I will ACTIVELY work against this aspect of the bill.

2) Alpha Veto power. Still need to be convinced of this one. Couldnt chapters continue to put this into their bylaws if they desired? How does this effect the role of the Exec? The High Pi pretty much has veto power over the situations they described int he legislation, (a violation of policy is imminent, etc.). The only other justification the author offers is that the us government operates that way. WTF is that? First, were runnign a fraternity, not a country. Lambda Chi doesnt operate a standing army, run medical programs, etc. Second, not liek the US goverment is the model of efficiency. lol

3) The minimum chapter size. Actually, I am the sponsor of this legislation. However, its not mine. I was asked by some alums (not of my association) to sponsor it on the floor. I agreed as a favor. I told them that they woudl have to write my talking points, and my floor speech. It's not my Alamo. I understand the need for it and do support it. Primarily because of fairness. Its not right that the bigger chapters have to carry the weight of the smaller chapters. Chapters under 20 are a financial drain on the fraternity. It dosent get any more simple than that, and its not right. Why does chapter A have to carry the weight of chapter B? I was part of a chapter that was 12 men at one point? Why were we 12 men? Cause we had just gone through a house cleaning (which exempts a chapter/colony from the minimum rule). We got off our asses and recruited. We were over 20 the next semester. It can be done, but all brothers do is bitch and complain and dont rush for shit. How many chapters that complain about how small they are or the problems they face with recruitment have even tried some of HQ's suggestions? Clearly it works, look at expansion. How many have watched the recruitment success DVD? How many have read the recruitment materials and even tried those suggestions? Recruitment sucks, and I hate it too, but its a necesscity. Some want HQ to come down and rush for us. Great. Just be prepared for active dues to go up about $75 per man per semester to pay for that kind of program. Cause with funding at current levels, they could never support it. Also, isnt there a point where a chapter / colony pretty much caeses to function as a chapter? We have numerous chapters / colonies that are fewer than 7 men. We even have one group with only 2 men. Thats a drain on our resources.

3) Jewlery. Am not real emotional on this issue.

4) Eliminating references to Executive Secretary. I dotn think anyone is trying to eliminate the position, just designating that the ES position not be responsible for everything and allows areas of operations that fall to others in finance and such be responsible to those. If they did want to eliminate the Exec Secretary in a corporate restructuring, its not the end of the world.

5) Expansion beyond the US and Canada. I support it. Right now its beign addressed proactively. There are no interest groups outside of the US and the gf has no immediate plans to go outside of the us and canada. However, if a group say, at the Monterrety Tech in Monterrey Mexico (the largest and best university between Mexico City and UT-Austin, (I'd go there)) was all about bringing greeks to their campus and was all about Lambda Chi and even had an undergraduate transfer brother who wanted to colonize there, constitutionally, we couldnt expand there. I would gurantee that HQ is gonna make damn sure any and all expansions, especially outside the US and Canada are worth it (cause they are gonna have to explain to us why they did it). NPC, NIC chapters outside the US arent new. I havent doen a survey on it but I knwo for a fact that Tri-Sig (I know they hate being called that) has a chapter in Germany. If peopel are worried about cultural differences, come to south Texas and look at the chapter at AM-Kingsville (where I was initiated) or the colony at A&M International where you have brothers that have a barely basic command of English, or live in Mexico and come across just to go to school.

6) Expansion to JuCo's. From what I remember, TKE has experimented with this concept before, but I dont know what their successes were. Maybe if all of us alumni and undergraduates would get off our asses and recruit, HQ would have the revenue it needs and wouldnt be forced to look at JUCO's to expand its market base. Just a thought.

7) Changing the election, terms and makeup of SAC members. I dotn think direct election is necessary or logistically realistic. I do support the term increase to 2 years, I liek the GHZ choosing insteard of the GHA alone. I would still like to see one rep from each conclave. In the current conclave system, each region is represented. Lambda Chi is a midwestern fraternity. What gurantee is there that chapters from the southwest and west woudl still be represented. I dotn liek the move away from regionalism that began in 1996 with the elimination of 'conclave meetings' where wed have programming and handle regional business that was important to the chapters in that region. We decided where the next conclave woudl be held and debated it. I would actually like to see a return to a more regionally focused approach.

[LXA DeltaPhi317]

lifesaver, please pm me. i have a question.

[lenoxxx]

Please keep this thread on track

The topics about The Junior Colleges and Outide of the USA expansion are on topic. The other items are great topics but should go somewhere else.


The Jr college thing is iffy at best, some of those places are for fraternities. Outside of the USA intrigues me. Maybe we could go to Mexico or Australia.

Just a thought

Lenoxxx

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by lenoxxx
Please keep this thread on track

The topics about The Junior Colleges and Outide of the USA expansion are on topic. The other items are great topics but should go somewhere else.


The Jr college thing is iffy at best, some of those places are for fraternities. Outside of the USA intrigues me. Maybe we could go to Mexico or Australia.

Just a thought

Lenoxxx

How bout we ask Tom to move all the posts dealing with GA to a new thread where we coudl discuss legislation?

[Erik P Conard]

if I did not feel a friendliness towards Lambda Chi Alpha I would not be intervening...however, we are somewhat of the same bolt
of cloth, so here's some food for thought for impending legislation
Foreign chapters...remember Chi Phi tried it a hundred years ago,
and further, study higher ed and you will soon learn that our bent
as regards higher education is considerably different than any of
the foreign postures. TKE has allied itself somewhat with a large German fraternity...which name i forget. They have several chapters on the same "campus" but operate greatly different than
us. I am fluent in Spanish and see nothing for us to gain by trying
that route, not to speak of rituals, etc....and to try to enter the hallowed halls of the United Kingdom...forget it. Naw, it is tough
enough to sell our concepts in Canada, let alone elsewhere. Table the matter for twenty more years...you'll be glad you did.
Junior colleges, community colleges, trade schools, shopping centers...where will it end? Why not give more attention to the
abandoned alums, the dead chapters? Why keep looking for a sugar titty? The community college is not the place, either. Some
on the GC will get pissed at my stance, but I am only trying to address the NIC-type fraternity. The others are wannabees, in my opinion, but I do not care to take them on, either. We are a
fraternity, not a rehabilitation center...
We need to stand back, take a look at the past twenty or thirty
years...re-group, and revive...and ponder our purposes and our
principles...I am an avid expansionist, believe me, but we need to
re-define our goals. The junior college or the trade school is out
of our realm, and if you want real problems, go ahead...Just my
two cents...from a well-intentioned friend and fellow Greek

[Tom Earp]

I do not agree with a lot of Legislation that will be presented at G A. I hope I am Elected as a Delegate and I will vote against a lot of it.

As far as Voting fo Out Of Canada and The USA-NO. Why, because, We as A INT Greek Organiazation cannot Govern what we have.

How many States are there No Zetas In? Try Hawahi for one. Why, Expense!!!!!!

How many Zetas are Closed?

Why Dont We as A Major Intinity Reopen Those Closed Zetas?

Why is it that some such as Major U. Be smiled upon Better!

I hope this is thought of when G A is Convened!


Never Forget About The Small People Who Came To The Dance and Made LXA What It Is Really Allllll About!

[JoinerLxa]

I emailed HQ and asked if opening chapters at Jr. Colleges
would mean we'd have to leave the NIC.

HQ called NIC and an Exec VP there said we could still
be in NIC with chapters at non-4-year-colleges. Apparently
that "chapters only at 4-year colleges" rule was dropped
at some point, as it was a "big deal" and strictly
enforced in the early days. (ThKN considered expanding
to such places in the late 30's, but decided not to
because they'd have to leave the NIC).

TKE has been in and out of the NIC over the years....
opening chapters at non-traditional colleges was
one of the "issues" they had. Not sure how it went
though.

FYI,

Kevin

[LXAAlum]

I can see both sides of the Community College/JuCo coin....

It's an avenue of expansion, and, if done at the right campuses, that perhaps are located close to a 4 yr college, might make sense (i.e. here in Greeley with Aims CC and University of Northern Colorado).

I teach part-time at Aims, and many of the students I have go to Aims for the first two years, then transfer to complete a Bachelor's program at UNC. Main reason? Money - it is substantially more cost-effective to take the "general education" classes required of most majors at Aims.

It needs to be done right - targeting the right students who will eventually go on, and theoretically transfer, to a 4 year institution with a LXA chapter. It's a potential win for LXA internationally, as more dues revenues can be collected, and I would assume that is one of the motivating factors behind this proposal.

However, quality of students between CC's and 4 yr schools is also a concern. It also presents a problem of consistency at a 2 year vs. 4 year campus - so another key to doing this correctly is to have good alumni involvement and oversight, and I would recommend some sort of blending of alumni involvement between 2 chapters in a scenario like we have here in Greeley.

I would NOT recommend membership to a student just at a CC for the Associates degree, I don't think the quality of member, nor the overall experience more years of membership would give, would benefit LXA in the long run.

So I'm torn - I like the idea, if certain conditions/guidelines are involved, but to open chapters just for the sake of expansion, will not be in the long-term interest of the entire fraternity....

Just my 2 cents (and then some.....getting of the soapbox)....

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
I do not agree with a lot of Legislation that will be presented at G A. I hope I am Elected as a Delegate and I will vote against a lot of it.

So does this mean you are going to GA??