"An accused child pornographer shoves a former crack dealer out of the #1 spot..."

[lovele1978]

I think that we need to handle these types of situations from both ends. Men like R. Kelly have major issues . He seeks out young women to fill whatever is lacking in his life, God can only know what that could be. I believe that he is guilty and should be punished accordingly, there is no question about that. By punishing someone of his stature will show other men with the "young girl fetish" that it is a very serious crime. As Riley said, I think that this young girl should get some sort of counseling when it is all said and done. There was obviously something she felt she was missing from her life too why she tried to fill the void with sex and the affection (if that's what you want to call it) from an older man.

I am in no way blaming the girl for the prosecution of Kelly. But these young girls need to realize that although you may have the body of a woman, there is a lot to be learned before you take on that title. Lesson #1 would be respecting yourself. There is no way that that young lady had any respect for herself to let Rra do the things that he did to her. And that maybe because no one ever told her that she was worth more than a "good time". And if our younger generation of women feel that is what they need to do to be accepted, we all have a lot of work ahead of us.

There are always going to be the "R. Kelly's" of the world, but we need to teach our daughters, sisters, cousins, etc., to avoid those situations and have pride in themselves. There would be a big difference iin this case if Kelly molested a 2yr old than a 14 year old. If the girl were two, she would not understand what was taking place and it would probably be by force. I agree that the fourteen year old still has the mind of a child, but she understands what sex is. What she may not understand is that sex does not = love or a relationship. The best thing that can be done for her is to help her rebuild herself through lots of prayer and counseling.

Just MHO.

[Riley]

Originally posted by lovele1978
I think that we need to handle these types of situations from both ends. Men like R. Kelly have major issues . He seeks out young women to fill whatever is lacking in his life, God can only know what that could be. I believe that he is guilty and should be punished accordingly, there is no question about that. By punishing someone of his stature will show other men with the "young girl fetish" that it is a very serious crime. As Riley said, I think that this young girl should get some sort of counseling when it is all said and done. There was obviously something she felt she was missing from her life too why she tried to fill the void with sex and the affection (if that's what you want to call it) from an older man.

I am in no way blaming the girl for the prosecution of Kelly. But these young girls need to realize that although you may have the body of a woman, there is a lot to be learned before you take on that title. Lesson #1 would be respecting yourself. There is no way that that young lady had any respect for herself to let Rra do the things that he did to her. And that maybe because no one ever told her that she was worth more than a "good time". And if our younger generation of women feel that is what they need to do to be accepted, we all have a lot of work ahead of us.

There are always going to be the "R. Kelly's" of the world, but we need to teach our daughters, sisters, cousins, etc., to avoid those situations and have pride in themselves. There would be a big difference iin this case if Kelly molested a 2yr old than a 14 year old. If the girl were two, she would not understand what was taking place and it would probably be by force. I agree that the fourteen year old still has the mind of a child, but she understands what sex is. What she may not understand is that sex does not = love or a relationship. The best thing that can be done for her is to help her rebuild herself through lots of prayer and counseling.

Just MHO.

Thank you. lovele1978! No one said punish the girls, but some education must be done for them. True the family and close friends are the first line of defense, but what if they fail (it is not uncommon). Then what? No one has seemed to tackle that point.

[Riley]

Originally posted by librasoul22


You have sort of sideswiped the issue. You are correct that these girls need to be educated. But they cannot educate themselves. Therefore the responsibility lies with parents, teachers, and indeed, the men they come on to.

Parent, teachers and sometimes the men do educate the girls on why they should change their behavior. They try to stop them in their tracks, but sometimes the girls will keep trying untill they find someone who is responsive.

Two methods:

1. Educate the girls from jump so they will not have the need to seek older "affection". That would be close family and friends.

If that doesn't work

2. If that doesn't work and the "couple" is caught and charges are pressed. EDUCATION needs to be implemented on both parts b/especially the minor b/c they are the ones who are free to do it again if they so want. I.e the case in Cali several years ago with the teacher and her student. She wound up having THREE kids for her underage student. He didn't mind b/c he loved her. Obviously his family and close support and the media didn't stop his actions.

[nikki25]

I'm loving the course that this thread is starting to take...looking for solutions.

This brings me back to the question that I posed earlier: What will you personally do to ensure that boys and girls under your influence begin to think differently about themselves and relationships with others?

Sure, we can think of what government programs should be done...but I think we need to stop projecting a need for X, Y, Z program ('cause you know that you've not contacted your congressional rep to make the recommendation, although you SAY that you will) and take some personal or community-oriented initiative. Now, I'm not saying that a government program wouldn't be good...but I don't think that they always do what they intend. How can you develop leadership and self esteem among youth? I'd like to hear of any non-profit orgs. you are in or know of....so that perhaps we can move from tragedy to triumph.

+++
Here's what I DO

*College Student Ministry (17-22 year old age cohort), Spiritual Leader at my church
*I have been active with mentoring programs for young teenage girls
*I speak with young women and men...I find out what they are thinking and try to help them make good decisions

What I would like to do?

*Become locally active with organizations that target girls within the 11-14 age cohort. That is truly the life changing period...mentoring, role modeling, whatever can be done at the community level to reach out to these girls is something that I want to be about. I'm working now to develop a community action for this age group where I live because that is something on my heart.

[TLAW]

Good stuff people, and very well said. I must point out to Lovele that my reference to the 2-yr old had nothing to do with molestation. I was just putting a parallel out there to serve as an argument to say that 14 yr-olds generally think like children. Riley intelligently countered that argument.
I agree, the key is counseling. Ladies, get out there and teach these girls that sex is not a valid measure of their worth. It does take a village. There is too much of an emphasis on sex, and this pressure rubs off on our kids. Somebody watch an hour of BET, or go to our schools to hear convos, or just plain listen to our kids. Riley, I know you feel me!
For those that slip through, we need to take decisive measures to deal with the bastards who take advantage of the kids. I understand that Rra has been doing this for years. That means there probably have been more than a few young girls who have fallen victim to him. There is also talk of the parents being aware that thier daughter was sleeping with Rra. With parents like that, we are almost always going to fail at instilling self-pride in our kids.
Good stuff on this thread, people.

[prayerfull]

Tarnished R. Kelly needs prayers, not applause

June 11, 2002

BY MARY MITCHELL SUN-TIMES COLUMNIST

By the time I got off the phone with the Rev. James Meeks, pastor of Salem Baptist Church, I felt like the laity must have felt when they finally confronted pedophilia in the Catholic church: frustrated.

Why would anyone bring an accused sex offender on stage at a kindergarten graduation to say a few words?

Why didn't Meeks think it was inappropriate to let R. Kelly sing at the ceremony shortly after the superstar was released on bond for child pornography charges?

Praying for sinners is one thing. But parading an accused pedophile before young children and their parents calls for more compassion than most are able to dig up.

According to Meeks, when Kelly arrived home after turning himself in at a Chicago police station, there was a "throng," of reporters waiting. So, Meeks towed Kelly home with him and then to the graduation.

"I had said to R. Kelly if he is innocent then he should not hide and go into seclusion as if he is some kind of hermit," Meeks told me. "He should tell the truth and face his accusers.

"We walked in and the children were performing 'The World's Greatest' [one of Kelly's recent hits]. It was such a coincidence," Meeks said.

"When the track was over, the guy on the organ started playing and the kids were screaming his name. Kelly sang about two lines of the song, congratulated the kids and asked people to pray for him."

But aren't you opening yourself up to criticism? I asked Meeks. It is not like these allegations came out of the blue. Kelly has settled lawsuits with two women, two others have lawsuits pending, and there's the sex tape.

A few weeks ago, Kelly was on national TV, alongside Meeks, insisting that he wasn't on the tape. But after the indictment, Kelly's lawyer has only said "there are no underage girls on the tape."

Although a condition of Kelly's bond in Florida was that he avoid contact with minors, no such condition was tagged to his bond in Illinois.

Only one parent complained about Kelly's impromptu appearance at the graduation, Meeks said.

"If he were convicted, it is unlikely that I would have him in that setting," Meeks said. "It is un-American to make a person wear a banner of guilt before they are proven guilty."

That's true. But like the biblical teaching of "turning the other cheek," this kind of reasoning is hard to live up to when you are being chased by a pack of bullies.

When a man is accused of having sex with teenagers, seeing little girls jump up and down screaming his name in adoration is exactly what you don't want.

Also, there is the speculation that Meeks' involvement with the R. Kelly sex scandal has more to do with a desire to raise his own public profile than it does with Christianity--and that Meeks or Salem Baptist Church are profiting financially from the church's support of Kelly.

"That is absolutely not true," Meeks said. "If anybody can prove that R. Kelly gave me a dime, I will give them five times as much. When I went to Kelly's BET interview, I paid my own plane ticket and I paid for the hotel room I stayed in. The night I was there, not even a Coca-Cola was purchased for me."

Meeks said he didn't solicit Kelly for the position of "spiritual adviser." Kelly called him shortly after the raunchy videotape surfaced.

"I met him about two years ago when Operation PUSH was out at Cook County jail at Christmas and Kelly was there singing," Meeks said. "I came up to him after the service and said, 'Hey man, listen I need to talk to you. I think there are some things that are happening that I can help you with. Here are my numbers.'

"But he didn't contact me until about eight weeks ago. He called me and said it's time for us to have that talk," Meeks said.

"Everybody says the guy needs help, but the helper shouldn't be Meeks. Then who should be helping?" he asked.

Kelly is blessed to have a spiritual adviser. I wish Meeks had bumped into Tracy Sampson or Tiffany Hawkins instead. Maybe then the black community wouldn't have to endure another sex scandal.

Both of the women were girls when they claim they were lured out of the choir to engage in sex acts with the superstar. Hawkins was so devastated by the relationship she attempted suicide. Sampson had to drop out of college when the details of her relationship with Kelly became public.

Where was Meeks then?

"I am positively available to talk to the women now," Meeks countered on Monday. "I try to remain impartial. I haven't taken sides."

But Meeks has taken sides. Because he is also a community leader, his private role as spiritual adviser has made him a public cheerleader for the singer. That's the problem.

When community leaders choose to support accused sex offenders while ignoring victims (Meeks also gave former congressman Mel Reynolds a hero's welcome), it perpetuates the myth this kind of sexual behavior is part of black culture.

Kelly should have been at Salem praying, not singing.

[TLAW]

Prayerfull, again, I am disgusted. This is what I mean by coddling. I know some will disagree with me, but I agree with the writer of this article. He had no business leading kindergartners in anything.
Let us assume that the man is innocent. When it comes to children and spiritual ministry, we must still err on the side of caution. For example, I believed Rev Jesse Jackson should have stepped aside, albeit for a while, when his extramarital affair came out.
Then there is Rra. Rev meeks must have really thought he was correctly advising him when he decided to take a man accused of child porn to lead a graduation. Some people are remarkable.

[DoggyStyle82]

TLAW, my brother, you make excellent points. The behavior of publicity hound Ministers should inflame all church-goers. Why bring a man who has a history of crimes against children around them. The symbolism is awful. Self-serving preachers should be called on the carpet.

[Riley]

Originally posted by TLAW
Good stuff people, and very well said. I must point out to Lovele that my reference to the 2-yr old had nothing to do with molestation. I was just putting a parallel out there to serve as an argument to say that 14 yr-olds generally think like children. Riley intelligently countered that argument.
I agree, the key is counseling. Ladies, get out there and teach these girls that sex is not a valid measure of their worth. It does take a village. There is too much of an emphasis on sex, and this pressure rubs off on our kids. Somebody watch an hour of BET, or go to our schools to hear convos, or just plain listen to our kids. Riley, I know you feel me!
For those that slip through, we need to take decisive measures to deal with the bastards who take advantage of the kids. I understand that Rra has been doing this for years. That means there probably have been more than a few young girls who have fallen victim to him. There is also talk of the parents being aware that thier daughter was sleeping with Rra. With parents like that, we are almost always going to fail at instilling self-pride in our kids.
Good stuff on this thread, people.

I definalty feel you on this, but it is not as simple as it seems. As a health educator I DO teach abstinence. If you are not doing anything then you cannot catch anything. You know the repsone I get from these "babies". Everyone keeps saying abstience but no one is listening, so why do people keep saying it. Why do I say it, so you will know that IS an option for you.

The first issuse that needs to be adressed is why are teenagers are so pressed to have sex in the first place. And the answer is simple. Think back to when you were in Junior High or H.S. (it may take a little longer for some )what were your hormones saying? Did you have a "signficant other" and how much older/ younger were they than you. And here is the kicker, how old were you when you lost "it"? When you answer these questions then you have answered what will work for these girls AND guys. Everyone is saying talk to them and get the families involved, nice but did it work for you?

This R Kelly case is one of the extremes ( not a rarity). 14 and a 34 year old. But what about the 15 and the 18 year-old and the 16 and the 19 year old? If your daughter was 16 and had a 19 year old boyfriend, or your son had the younger girl.....how would you react?

[lovelyivy84]

It's not fair to put the 16 and 19 year old in the same category as R. Kelly. Their experiences and maturity level are not particularly different in most cases. There is no blanket statement on age, you have to use the sense God gave you to decide what is appropriate and what is not.

If this is going to become a discussion, maybe this should be a new thread instead of in the R. Kelly one.

[TLAW]

Interesting, Riley, interesting. These issues came out recently in a a controversy pertaining to a book written by some lady exploring the same age difference issues. I am sure you know what I am referring to, since you are probably more of an expert on that topic.
And, for the record, I do agree that abstinence should be taught as an alternative.

[Riley]

Originally posted by lovelyivy84
It's not fair to put the 16 and 19 year old in the same category as R. Kelly. Their experiences and maturity level are not particularly different in most cases. There is no blanket statement on age, you have to use the sense God gave you to decide what is appropriate and what is not.

If this is going to become a discussion, maybe this should be a new thread instead of in the R. Kelly one.

Why not. The legal system sees no dofference? Satuatory rape is termed when an adult 18 years and older has sex with a minor, anyone who is younger than 18. If you do not think it is fair, tell that to the parents of teens who have sued and won.

[AKAtude]

Originally posted by TLAW
Prayerfull, again, I am disgusted. This is what I mean by coddling. I know some will disagree with me, but I agree with the writer of this article. He had no business leading kindergartners in anything.
Let us assume that the man is innocent. When it comes to children and spiritual ministry, we must still err on the side of caution. For example, I believed Rev Jesse Jackson should have stepped aside, albeit for a while, when his extramarital affair came out.
Then there is Rra. Rev meeks must have really thought he was correctly advising him when he decided to take a man accused of child porn to lead a graduation. Some people are remarkable.

[Riley]

Why is it when controversy strikes everyone has an opinion and wants to put their two cents in. But when all the drama has died down and the media coverage has faded their is no more talk of the situation except when used as a frame of reference or as a joke.

Several people asked wht can you do (however big or small) to slow down these occurances? It could be antying from talking to your peers, little sister and brothers. To having a class dicussion or working in the field. It doesn't have to be dramatic. What bothers me is when people have so much to say about controversial issuses but are not willing to aid in the solution.

That is just my two cents!

[CrucialCrimson]

Originally posted by Riley


Why not. The legal system sees no dofference? Satuatory rape is termed when an adult 18 years and older has sex with a minor, anyone who is younger than 18. If you do not think it is fair, tell that to the parents of teens who have sued and won.

The age of consent is lower than 18 in a lot of places 15/16 is pretty common these days.