Dr. Henry Louis Gates Arrested

[SWTXBelle]

Let's all go to the lobby . . .


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9CSnlb-ymA

[Kevin]

Good stuff. Definitely different than here.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Good stuff. Definitely different than here.

Well, might your state chapter of the ACLU give a slightly different spin as well? I'm not saying they are fibbing but I think they'd be tempted to give an explanation that held the most expansive view of individual rights vs. what would actually hold up in a particular case.

For example, I suspect that some political speech can be disorderly conduct if for example, you had a Seattle G8 Summit kind of situation.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Well, might your state chapter of the ACLU give a slightly different spin as well? I'm not saying they are fibbing but I think they'd be tempted to give an explanation that held the most expansive view of individual rights vs. what would actually hold up in a particular case.

Maybe, but it seems like the Slate article is referencing the legal definition, based on the MA statutes and case law - whether or not an organization wants to stretch that definition or challenge it in the courts is a whole other issue.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Maybe, but it seems like the Slate article is referencing the legal definition, based on the MA statutes and case law - whether or not an organization wants to stretch that definition or challenge it in the courts is a whole other issue.

The part about political speech being exempt, in a way that implied completely exempt, struck me as idealistically delusional, but perhaps the issue is that you simply wouldn't be charged with disorderly conduct in particular if you incited a riot with political speech.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Well, might your state chapter of the ACLU give a slightly different spin as well? I'm not saying they are fibbing but I think they'd be tempted to give an explanation that held the most expansive view of individual rights vs. what would actually hold up in a particular case.

For example, I suspect that some political speech can be disorderly conduct if for example, you had a Seattle G8 Summit kind of situation.

FWIW, the Explainer thanks members of the ACLU at the conclusion of the article.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

FWIW, the Explainer thanks members of the ACLU at the conclusion of the article.

That's why I mentioned it.

I suspect that the Explainer might get a more pro-police explanation from a different legal source, but I also had the impression that what case law applied to a given situation was a little more eye of the beholder than KSigKid's response allows. (I mean until the particular case was decided or resolved on appeal.)

I'm a fan of civil liberties, and when they are making an effort to protect the civil liberties of people regardless of the politics of the people in question, I'm a fan of the ACLU.

[SWTXBelle]

"Skip Gates thought that he’d worked hard enough, achieved enough, become Harvard enough that this sort of treatment did not apply to him. And now, rather than channel that outrage in a way that is subtle but effective, he’s very publicly suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, having "joined the ranks of the million incarcerated black men in America." That’s laughable. He does not see those million men as kin and he doesn’t, by and large, give a damn about those guys. He’s merely annoyed that such an irritation as police misconduct found its way into his home. If he read about this story happening to a plumber in Roxbury, he’d shake his head in disappointment and then go on with his life."

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2009/07/24/gates/

"But the larger problem of racial disparity in law enforcement is not caused by individual misconduct, and it will not be solved by apologies extracted under pressure or the threat of litigation. It's a symptom of the way we have chosen to deal with poverty and racial isolation in this very wealthy and supposedly egalitarian society. And it makes all police scapegoats for the failed and callous social policies that we have all chosen or acquiesced to. "

http://www.slate.com/id/2223472/

eta - I'm not saying this is my view on it (still personally unsure) but they offer interesting perspectives.

[Kevin]

I think the charge against Gates is still open to interpretation. I take the ACLU's opinion with a grain of salt when it comes to 1st Amendment issues.... and the ACLU office in Boston, Mass? Most definitely.

As to the charge that the officer improperly withheld his name and badge number? Yeah, I think he should probably get written up for that or whatever they do to discipline officers for ticky-tack violations.

Finally, its assertion that Gates was under no duty to provide ID is dead wrong. The officer most certainly had probable cause to investigate burglary. He was sent to a house looking for two black men who "broke into" the home carrying backpacks. That, whether or not the characterization is correct in the final analysis is absolutely perfect probable cause. The officer was entitled to continue to gather facts to make sure everything was as it should be. An irate man calling the officer a racist and pretending to call the chief of police is something which would probably only heighten the ordinary officer's level of suspicion.

Like I said, other than a ticky-tack violation, I see nothing wrong with how this officer handled himself.

[Kevin]

Depends on what the statute says.

[UGAalum94]

Maybe Oprah could have them both on her show and mediate a touching mutual apology. Gates: I'm sorry I was a jet-lagged jerk who questioned your motivation in investigating a break in at my house. Cop: I'm sorry I got carried away with my authority when you wouldn't quit accusing me of racism. Obama could bless them from on high and we could move on to canonizing Michael Jackson.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Maybe Oprah could have them both on her show and mediate a touching mutual apology. Gates: I'm sorry I was a jet-lagged jerk who questioned your motivation in investigating a break in at my house. Cop: I'm sorry I got carried away with my authority when you wouldn't quit accusing me of racism. Obama could bless them from on high and we could move on to canonizing Michael Jackson.

It wouldn't be complete unless they hugged at the end to a standing ovation from the studio audience.

You do know how the American public likes to put a neat little bow on every situation - this would be the perfect way to do it.

[SWTXBelle]

HEY! Everyone could then sing "We Are The World", thus tying it all together with a Michael Jackson bow!

And there aren't "generic" responses from whites, any more than there are from minorities. Just in this thread we've seen a wide variety of responses from all over the color and political spectrum. We ALL contain multitudes, to borrow from Whitman.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

HEY! Everyone could then sing "We Are The World", thus tying it all together with a Michael Jackson bow!

And there aren't "generic" responses from whites, any more than there are from minorities. Just in this thread we've seen a wide variety of responses from all over the color and political spectrum. We ALL contain multitudes, to borrow from Whitman.

Well hopefully our version of We Are The World would be better than the one at his memorial. I still shudder when I think about how they murdered the song!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

HEY! Everyone could then sing "We Are The World", thus tying it all together with a Michael Jackson bow!

And there aren't "generic" responses from whites, any more than there are from minorities. Just in this thread we've seen a wide variety of responses from all over the color and political spectrum. We ALL contain multitudes, to borrow from Whitman.

I love posts with literary allusions.