White or Homosexual members - Page 7

DELTAQTE · #91 03-24-2002, 06:17 AM

Well I know quite a few non black members in Delta, and I like them very much and welcomed them into Delta. The non black members I know were all raised in an urban community and basically never really associated with whites/latinos in high school/college. So they joined a organization they felt comfortable with.

So I ask the question: What if you know that this member was raised among blacks and that's all they have ever known? Would you feel different or you wouldn't care?

Let me just say that black and white greeks got together one time at my school to express our opinions about each other. It got emotional but it came down to this:

White Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you greek because your chapters are so small, you weren't founded in the 1800's, and you don't have houses or money like us.

Black Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you guys greeks, because you guys don't really pledge, you take in a lot of members who pay a fee and drink a lot all day.

Just telling you what the jist of this meeting was about, I wonder if more white/black greeks feel like this and just don't want to say anything.

QTE

AXO Alum · #92 03-24-2002, 09:05 AM

Happydaysf91, I am including the WHOLE quote here -- just a few posts after mine on page 5, you only quoted one of my paragraphs too. The great thing about being able to quote someone on here is that we don't have to keep re-quoting the entire posts to make a point. And I think that EVERYONE is guilty of taking posts out of context -- which is why I made my statement about DZRose.

To everyone - I really don't understand it. When people are offended then they are called cowards for not speaking out. When people do speak out, they are accused of setting a trap to have the thread closed. Which way is it? And yes, I'm assuming that statement was to me because NO ONE else is left with a dissenting view of all of this.

And it has gotten emotional on ALL parts because obviously you can't discuss why you would or would not allow someone to join without stating your FEELINGS about a person based on his or her skin color. (Which is why I said that I was glad AXO has 5 criteria for all the world to see which doesn't include race, creed, sexual orientation, etc.)

I'm not here to tell anyone who they can or cannot choose and what to base it on. I'm just trying to say that when a thread calls out two distinctly different sectors of humanity, then the racial tone is set.

If someone says "I don't want a white person in my group" then fine -- but I don't want to hear $hit about it if someone else says "I don't want a black person in my group" -- but we've all seen that this doesn't work that way. Look at all the numerous locked threads on Greek Life about race.

I have had many non-whites in the chapters I work with. In fact, more than half of the chapter right now is non-white. I guess that leaves my conscience clear when I think about the true meaning of sisterhood to me.

Sphinxpoet - thank you for your other post. I thought your words were very appropriate to everyone.

DELTAQTE - I was glad to read that your greeks came together at your school. I hate that it wasn't a better outcome for you (you meaning your greeks, school, etc.). We are currently working on a project at school that would involve all of the greeks coming together. I will wish for better progress on all parts for this project. If you have any suggestions for me, could you please PM me - I would like to bring these type outcomes to the table with me as we prepare to meet, so we can further foster the greek spirit on a campus where we as greeks are not wanted period. Thanks!

Quote:

Originally posted by Happydaysf91
I must say...that I totally agree with Virtuous. We all can pick apart another's comment and quote different sections that stirs anger in others...but did you really get the point of the post?....I really don't think I like that function after this thread ....

Really....if you quote a person, you probably should quote the entire post....taken out of context, some things which are innocent turn into something that it really is not.....just like my quote in regards to the Omega/WGLO sorority...my point was simple: both groups have people with these opinions; we must respect each others' opinions; and the people on this board are not representive of our entire orgnanizations. However...by taking pieces...that point was lost.

This is just my opinion....I guess right now...its on to another thread or let's continue the topic at hand (not JUST responding to others)...... I'll start it off....as previously stated by me....

I don't have a problem with either...as long as you pay your dues and stay active..... If I run into a white (or non-AA) or homosexual soror....I'll greet her just the same as my AA sorors.

Tenacious1922 · #93 03-24-2002, 11:13 AM

Through my undergrad chapter we had one white soror come through (this was in the early 90's. And more recently we had a hispanic soror, who was and is a FANTASTIC member.(she has since graduated) And as far as a person, she is the creme of the crop. She was better than some of our AA sorors as far as working for SGRho, her character etc. Now I have never met an openly gay soror, but I would treat her with the same respect I would any soror of SGRho. Now..can I understand those who are totally against whites or gays in their orgs? Yes.. because we all were raised differently, our life experiences, religious beliefs etc. So I do not think that there is a right or wrong answer to this question, it is just a matter of what YOU believe. I do not have a problem with whites or gays in SGRho. But I could easily have a problem with whites being in SGRho, just from my personal experience with white people in general.(So that is why I understand when some have said HELL NO to whites being in their orgs) I have been called *N* B*&%^h by white
people, I have been discriminated more times than I care to remember by white people. And as an undergrad the white sororities had a stepshow, where it seemed as if they were making fun of us, but yet Zeta Tau Alpha stepped on a regualr basis an even won at a Black Greek Stepshow. Also at a GREEK WEEK function (where black and white Greeks were together), after we did our call some white frats had the nerve to repeat our call and laugh. IT TOOK EVERYTHING IN ME AND MY SORORS TO NOT BEAT SOME SERIOUS A##!!!!!!

We had to work with a white male frat...who never returned our calls, so we just said F*&^ it! So...I can see this question from all sides. But I still feel that I have to take it on an indivdual basis or else we could be missing out on some great people. And for those who think this thread should be closed, I do not agree. There is "NOTHING" wrong with expressing your opinion. If the thread gets heated... so what! That is the whole problem with race or homosexuality, people think if we do not talk about it, then it will go away. It won't so it is better to be real and try and deal with it. And at least try and see other people views....you might learn something!

Tenacious1922

This is the opinions of Tenacious1922, not Sigma Gamma Rho Sorority, Inc.

Tenacious1922 · #94 03-24-2002, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DELTAQTE
Well I know quite a few non black members in Delta, and I like them very much and welcomed them into Delta. The non black members I know were all raised in an urban community and basically never really associated with whites/latinos in high school/college. So they joined a organization they felt comfortable with.

So I ask the question: What if you know that this member was raised among blacks and that's all they have ever known? Would you feel different or you wouldn't care?

Let me just say that black and white greeks got together one time at my school to express our opinions about each other. It got emotional but it came down to this:

White Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you greek because your chapters are so small, you weren't founded in the 1800's, and you don't have houses or money like us.

Black Greeks: We think you guys are cool, but we REALLY don't consider you guys greeks, because you guys don't really pledge, you take in a lot of members who pay a fee and drink a lot all day.

Just telling you what the jist of this meeting was about, I wonder if more white/black greeks feel like this and just don't want to say anything.

QTE

I think that a lot of Black and White Greeks feel like this, but people are afraid to speak up. We really do not understand where each other is coming from at times. It is a shame that it is 2002 and we still have so many issues with race and just plan misunderstanding of one another.

Tenacious1922

Reds6 · #95 03-26-2002, 11:44 AM

I don't have a problem with Latino's becoming members of BGLO's. We have shared many of the same struggles and they are of African descent.
I do understand that there are those whites that have grown up only around blacks, etc. And in my experience those are the ones that have called me N***** first.. So no I still would not vote for them.

dzrose93 · #96 03-26-2002, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
This whole conversation is going no where fast. It started off as an intelligent discussion and it has turned into an emotional bunch of mess. Those people are only citing posts that they can pick apart to make thier own arguments stronger and are totally ignoring numerous posts that differ from their ASSUMPTIONS of what African Americans believe. I find it interesting that certain people DID NOT want this conversation to take place at all, those people came to this forum and it has turned into nothing but emotionalism and attacks, and now it will DEFINATELY be closed soon because they can prove that this thread is against GC terms. I wonder did they accomplish thier mission and did we fall right into the trap????????

Sorry for being gone so long. Just wanted to let you know that I have never asked for this thread to be closed and I also have never asked for anyone to be banned because of posts they made here. I didn't set a "trap" and I surely didn't have an underlying "mission" when I posted my thoughts. In fact, the ONLY "mission" I had was to state my viewpoint -- which happens to be the same "mission" that I am on anytime that I post on GC.

I strongly resent the implication that the white GCers who have posted on this topic jumped into the thread in an attempt to stir up controversy and get the thread deleted from GC. If you don't want us to give our viewpoint, then don't post a topic titled "White or Homosexual Members" on a message board that has both white and homosexual members!

I cannot believe that you actually have accused us of having a secret agenda just because we posted about a topic that concerns us and is staring us in the face everytime we visit GC! Do you have any idea how crazy that notion sounds?

This whole thread seems like a no win situation. If whites are offended but don't post, then we're cowards and, if we do post, then we're on a "mission" to get certain black members of GC banned and a black thread deleted?!?! Puhleeze. Whether or not you choose to believe it, we're not part of some big conspiracy against the black GC community. We're not out to get you, we're not "oppressors", and we're sure as heck not trying to act as your "masters" as another poster in this thread has claimed.

Honestly, I think some folks are being way too hasty in judging the motives of white GCers who took an interest in this particular thread. I, for one, simply felt that I should speak up since I was being called a coward by some of you for being offended by the thread and not publicly saying anything about it. Then, when I did speak up, I was accused of contradicting myself, not reading the entire thread before posting, and being blind to the fact that racism exists -- all three VERY untrue accusations, by the way. And people wondered why I didn't want to speak up before???

DivineZeta · #97 03-26-2002, 02:20 PM

If I may add my 20 cents..

I am a member of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, Inc. And know a few non-black members of my beloved sorority.

When selected people for membership, assuming they meet all of the qualifications, I think of three things:
1. The character of the individual
2. What can they offer my sorority
3. After graduation, what are the chances they will be paid graduate members of the organization, continue to work towards its plans of actions, international, national and local projects.

This is a big issue with me.

All due respect to members of WGLO, but the major work of the BGLO is done at the graduate level. It's not about fun and games.
We have a mission. We aim to better our communities of color. We are working to fill a void in some cases. We do so much, but this one of primary goals. If you are non-black, will you be down for this mission?

Will you care that vote turnout in our community is low?
Do you care that AIDS unpropotionally effects African Amercians and do are willing to do what you can to help this group specifically?
Do you care that black children are not being adopted?
Do you care that Asthma effects a large number of AA Kids?
Do you care about racial profiling?
Do you care things we do to better the AA community specifically
Will you still care if our missions are not direct for your race?

I know there are several white member of Zeta Phi Beta, but when I go to my Boule' (International Convention), I see slim to none. I don't know of many whites who continue on at the graduate level.

I don't care what color you are, if you are not willing to work towards the goals of Zeta Phi Beta Sorority, inc., we don't need you.

DivineZeta

Dexter · #98 03-26-2002, 02:27 PM

First of all, I'm glad that you decided to speak up. But as you sit here and type about untrue accusations. AGAIN let's me know that you are not reading the ENTIRE posts. You've been QUOTED as to you contradictions! Words written by you. Just because you voiced your opinion doesn't mean that we have to agree with it. I want you to voice your opinion. Like damasa said" We are all adults", In reading some of your posts you are misquoting your references and saying things like " racism isn't as prevelant today as it was in 1902" then when someone comments on that being WRONG, your reply is WHY IS EVERYONE PICKING ON ME. You were quoted as saying that some of the posts make you feel as though you wouldn't be welcomed at a BGLO event. But what about the posts whereas blacks are saying " I don't mind non AA coming out and joining or "I have white brothers in my frat that are some of the greatest brothers I know. Those statements you just ignored or just didn't read. Again this is not a personal attack upon you but I want you to try to look at it froma different perspective. As long as we continue to discuss it whether or not we agree, The fact is that the lines of communication is always open.

VirtuousErudite · #99 03-26-2002, 03:03 PM

Hi DZ,

First of all if you have never asked for the thread to be closed then the comment doesn't apply to you.

Secondly, what I meant by the "trap issue" is that this thread began as a intelligent exchange of ideas between posters. There were differing opinions but it did not turn into rudeness or mud slinging until certain people came along. It is a well known fact that once that starts threads are closed on GC. That is all I meant and it does seem a little bit fishy to me.

Third, I find it quite funny that you chose to ignore my entire first post where I pointed out many instances of predominantly white glo's and BGLO's working together. These are things I have peresonally seen myself. Why did you choose not to comment on this at all??? Or the several other posts made my others recognizing willingness to work with others. As I stated before I mean no personal disrespect towards you, just trying to educate.

Just something to think about.

V.E.

Quote:

Originally posted by dzrose93

Sorry for being gone so long. Just wanted to let you know that I have never asked for this thread to be closed and I also have never asked for anyone to be banned because of posts they made here. I didn't set a "trap" and I surely didn't have an underlying "mission" when I posted my thoughts. In fact, the ONLY "mission" I had was to state my viewpoint -- which happens to be the same "mission" that I am on anytime that I post on GC.

I strongly resent the implication that the white GCers who have posted on this topic jumped into the thread in an attempt to stir up controversy and get the thread deleted from GC. If you don't want us to give our viewpoint, then don't post a topic titled "White or Homosexual Members" on a message board that has both white and homosexual members!

I cannot believe that you actually have accused us of having a secret agenda just because we posted about a topic that concerns us and is staring us in the face everytime we visit GC! Do you have any idea how crazy that notion sounds?

This whole thread seems like a no win situation. If whites are offended but don't post, then we're cowards and, if we do post, then we're on a "mission" to get certain black members of GC banned and a black thread deleted?!?! Puhleeze. Whether or not you choose to believe it, we're not part of some big conspiracy against the black GC community. We're not out to get you, we're not "oppressors", and we're sure as heck not trying to act as your "masters" as another poster in this thread has claimed.

Honestly, I think some folks are being way too hasty in judging the motives of white GCers who took an interest in this particular thread. I, for one, simply felt that I should speak up since I was being called a coward by some of you for being offended by the thread and not publicly saying anything about it. Then, when I did speak up, I was accused of contradicting myself, not reading the entire thread before posting, and being blind to the fact that racism exists -- all three VERY untrue accusations, by the way. And people wondered why I didn't want to speak up before???

dzrose93 · #**100** 03-26-2002, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
Hi DZ,
Secondly, what I meant by the "trap issue" is that this thread began as a intelligent exchange of ideas between posters. There were differing opinions but it did not turn into rudeness or mud slinging until certain people came along. It is a well known fact that once that starts threads are closed on GC. That is all I meant and it does seem a little bit fishy to me.

I don't really know who you're referring to when you say "certain people came along"... If you could be a little more specific, maybe I'll be able to understand where you're coming from. Right now, though, it seems like this thread was going along without any incident for a while simply because no one was willing to speak up and say, "hey, some of y'all are sounding pretty racist."

When someone finally DID speak up, the person to do it was a white GCer, and it seems like THEN is when things started getting heated - not because the white person said anything rude, but because her viewpoint wasn't received well by the people making the racist comments. I personally don't think any of the white GCers have been rude or participated in mud-slinging of any kind on this thread and, quite honestly, I don't think that the majority of the black GCers have either. It's only a select few who have continued to make some random, rather absurd comments - and that's where the drama can be found.

Quote:

Originally posted by VirtuousErudite
Third, I find it quite funny that you chose to ignore my entire first post where I pointed out many instances of predominantly white glo's and BGLO's working together. These are things I have peresonally seen myself. Why did you choose not to comment on this at all??? Or the several other posts made my others recognizing willingness to work with others. As I stated before I mean no personal disrespect towards you, just trying to educate.

Just something to think about.

V.E.

I didn't ignore your first post. I did read it, and I'm glad that there is a willingness in HBGLO's to work with other (predominantly white) organizations... But the reason that I didn't comment on your first post (or others with a similar message) is because the fact that HBGLO's and HWGLO's sometimes work together isn't the issue of this thread.

I'm perfectly willing to stipulate that HBGLO members work together with HWGLO members on common causes. My sorority did quite a bit with the HBGLO orgs on my campus when I was in school. Alpha Phi Alpha, Delta Sigma Theta and Alpha Kappa Alpha used to help us prepare for our step shows during Greek Week, and we worked with AKA and DST in many philanthropic ventures as well, from planning seminars concerning womens' issues on campus to participating in underprivileged youth activities. So, I'm not saying that working together isn't important, or that it isn't done. I'm simply saying that it is a moot point for this particular thread.

The issue of this particular thread is whether or not members of BGLO's think that white and/or homosexual people should be allowed to join their organizations and, if so, would those individuals be welcomed by the black members.

Some of the responses have been positive, with BGLO members saying "Yes, we'd be glad to have anyone join as long as they are willing to work hard for the projects that our orgs support." That's great! But the problem I have is with the ones who say that they do not feel like an HBGLO is the proper place for a white person and/or that they would not vote for a white person interested in joining. That is discrimination, and that is racism. Pure and simple.

I personally don't believe in the terms "reverse discrimination" or "reverse racism" when describing discriminatory acts against white people. Racism is racism, and it's ugly no matter what form it takes or who it's directed towards. Some of the same people who are posting that they don't feel like whites should be in their groups are the ones who have protested in the past on GC about black girls not receiving bids at schools such as UGA and Alabama.

To me, people are talking out of both sides of their mouths if they think denying someone admittance because of race is an acceptable practice for historically-black organizations, but not an acceptable practice for historically-white ones. It's the double-talk with which I find fault, and it's the double-talk that I directed my previous posts to.

I want you to notice that I've always said "SOME GCers" or "SOME members of HBGLO's" when I've made my statements concerning racist admittance practices among black organizations. I say "some" because I know that certain opinions are not shared by all HBGLO members, and I would not try to lump all HBGLO members into one category that way. That would be very unfair -- just as unfair as saying that all HWGLO's are racist because one chapter of one organization didn't offer a black person a bid.

I hope this clarifies my viewpoint a little. If you would like me to go into further detail, please ask more questions. I'll be glad to answer them.

Honeykiss1974 · #**101** 03-26-2002, 06:33 PM

TO PLAY THE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE (and to get everyone's opinion):

Two scenarios:

First.......

BGLO's are founded upon Christian principles. We all know that "a sin is a sin", regardless. If you feel that homosexuals do not reflect upon the Christian foundings of BGLO, would you feel the same way if it was a member that openly slept around with every Tom, Dick, and LeRoy (or Tammy, Donna, and LaQuisha) since pre-marital sex is a sin as well?

Second......

Would it matter if the member was an "openly gay individual" ( attends gay/lesbian functions while in 'nalia, wore fraternity shirt tied up in the front like a crop top) or someone that chose not to "flaunt" their sexuality?

Professor · #**102** 03-27-2002, 09:39 AM

The dialogue of this thread is great. Much like a member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. stated even those in BGLO agree to disagree. Again, the views of this thread is not representative of the official position of any BGLO!!!!!!!!!