Obama orders end to the practice of denying same-sex partners hospital visits

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I hope not. I definitely think they should be able to visit their loved one in the hospital, but I don't think that we should go so far as to legalize gay marriage.

Why?

And no I'm not asking to be inflammatory.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I mean some polls showed during the 2000 elections that some voters were voting for George Bush because they liked his rhetoric AND because he looked like someone they could have a beer with. When I heard that I knew there was a crisis because people don't use common sense, and as a result they don't see through the BS. They buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Come on, really? You're going to use this argument for the 2000 election? What about the 2008 election?

No matter how you look at it, there are ALWAYS going to be people who vote for a candidate based on something other than what they should be focusing on... at EVERY level of government.

And let's face it... Obama actually HAD a beer with two American citizens that he invited to the White House.

[ASTalumna06]

And sorry for the double post but... I just saw this status on Facebook, posted by one of my friends:

"So, Larry King is getting his 8th divorce, Elizabeth Taylor is possibly getting married for a 9th time, Jesse James and Tiger Woods are screwing EVERYTHING, yet the idea of same-sex marriage is what is going to destroy the institution of marriage?? REALLY??"

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

Come on, really? You're going to use this argument for the 2000 election? What about the 2008 election?

No matter how you look at it, there are ALWAYS going to be people who vote for a candidate based on something other than what they should be focusing on... at EVERY level of government.

And let's face it... Obama actually HAD a beer with two American citizens that he invited to the White House.

I used the 2000 election because it was a SPECIFIC example of what I was talking about. I don't recall hearing about a similar poll during any other election.

And I don't exactly understand your point in referencing the Obama beer discussion at the White House. That had nothing to do with elections. That was an effort at mediation.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Why?

And no I'm not asking to be inflammatory.

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

No, I know you aren't trying to be inflammatory.

I just personally don't agree with it for religious reasons. Some try to spin it as homophobia but *Kanye shrug* that's not the case.

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin. And engaging in a discussion with them about it was interesting. We have a LGBT club at school and they have almost become divided because of this difference in opinion.

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

There are far too many who ARE drinking the Kool-Aid of politicians. Honestly if people saw through BS, half the people that have been elected over the years never would have made it into office.

I mean some polls showed during the 2000 elections that some voters were voting for George Bush because they liked his rhetoric AND because he looked like someone they could have a beer with. When I heard that I knew there was a crisis because people don't use common sense, and as a result they don't see through the BS. They buy it hook, line, and sinker.

Yeah, you might also have read in my post the part about people who actually pay attention to politics don't drink the Kool-aid. In both parties there are people who are going to vote Rep/Dem no matter who the candidate is because of the little R or D next to their name. They know nothing about the candidate, no nothing about the issues and if they have to pick between the candidates with the Rs or Ds next to their name, they pick the one that they think they could "drink a beer with." This is the majority of Americans. They don't give a crap about politics. They just know that politicians are dirty, cheating b@stards who are out to cheat us. BUT...their dirty, cheating b@stard is better than your dirty, cheating b@stard anyday!!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Interestingly enough I know some gay people in school with me right now who don't agree with gay marriage either because they feel that being gay is a sin.

I've known gay people who oppose gay marriage because they see it as buying into what society considers normative rather than standing in contrast (opposition?) to societal norms.

Just another example of the danger of assuming that everybody in any given "group" thinks alike.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I've known gay people who oppose gay marriage because they see it as buying into what society considers normative rather than standing in contrast (opposition?) to societal norms.

Just another example of the danger of assuming that everybody in any given "group" thinks alike.

And that's why everyone gets to have their own opinion. There are many in the gay community that don't buy into the monogamous, child-rearing lifestyle. To each his/her own.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I've known gay people who oppose gay marriage because they see it as buying into what society considers normative rather than standing in contrast (opposition?) to societal norms.

Just another example of the danger of assuming that everybody in any given "group" thinks alike.

Amen.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

<3

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And that's why everyone gets to have their own opinion. There are many in the gay community that don't buy into the monogamous, child-rearing lifestyle. To each his/her own.

Well hey when you phrase it like that, who can blame them? Sounds kinda dreary. It doesn't appeal to me either.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But religion has nothing to do with whether or not the state should recognize marriage between two consenting adults. Another couples marriage would have no bearing on your religious beliefs, on your marriage or on your life, so why do you even care if they get married? This is the United States of America, not the United States of Christianity. There are people here who have all kinds of beliefs, religious or otherwise, so legislating morality based on what your religion dictates is not democracy.

I think KSUviolet asked for my PERSONAL opinion. Which means your discussion about church and state is not relevant.

But let's not forget that the country WAS founded on Christian principles. Most of the laws we follow have a foundation in the Ten Commandments.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I'm really asking this to try to understand, not to try to start anything. I've heard the religious argument before but I don't understand why some people think their religious views should be imposed on others. If gay marriage were legalized, your church would not be required to perform gay marriage ceremonies. So I don't really understand what makes that a legitimate argument. Can you help me make sense of that? If it's a personal disagreement based on religious reasons, why wouldn't you just personally not engage in such an activity and not belong to a church that supports it? Why does that have to extend to everyone else?

I recognize that you aren't trying to start anything, but if I actually explain WHY, that would just start OTHERS on that path of sniping and backbiting. I don't want to do all of that. People start slinging allegations of homophobia even that's not even CLOSE to being the case. It is just too sticky.