Beijing: 08-08-2008

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by irishpipes

I want to hug Alicia Sacramone. Poor girl.

Yup. She'll be playing that "What If" game for years to come.

[srmom]

OH MY GOSH - so happy!!

My friends Sally, Debby and Carrie, after 7 races with 3 to go, are squarely in 3rd - hang on girls!

AND, my friend Anna, after 3 races is in 1ST!!!! She is expected to medal, but the competition is stiff!!!

Keep Sailing Fast!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!

Photo of Anna:

http://www.nbcolympics.com/sailing/p...id=205394.html

[LttleMsPrEp]

It was definitely heartbreaking to watch Alicia fall off of beam while knowing that the opportunity to pass the Chinese was lost and then watching her fall short on one of her tumbling passes on the floor. You could just tell how bad she wanted it but the nerves might've gotten to her. It also makes me wonder other things like how well would the women's team have done if both Chelsea Memmel and Samantha Peszeck were able to contribute more??

Either way I'm very excited that the woman captured the silver.. now i'm hoping for Shawn Johnson, Nastia Liukin, and Alicia(especially Alicia) to do amazingly well in the individual finals.

Maybe I'm bitter but I was soo happy when Bela Karoli( i'm sure I spelled that wrong) stated that he doesn't feel that the Chinese deserved gold because of age. But like everyone says with a government like China's there's no way that we'll ever know for sure what their actual ages are..

On the bright side the U.S. is STILL leading the medal count!!!!

[LttleMsPrEp]

I think there's a chance that their medal could be revoked if that's the case.. I've never heard of anything like that before but the only reason I"m thinking that thats a possibility is because when that track and field player got outed for taking steriods didn't she have to give up hre medals that she won?? I"m like 80% sure she did

[Tinia2]

there is another matter that i do not believe has been brought up here; the type of equipment being used.
the equipment used by the usa teams in training is by different manufacturer than is at the games. has different feels, texture, materials and reactions. if i recall the news story correctly for example the floor at games has more bounce to it.

[srmom]

But their Chinese passports say that they're 16, and we all know that government documents HAVE to be truthful

[pbear19]

I was thinking about the possibility that some of the Chinese girls are under 16 last night, and actually feeling a bit sorry for them. Can you imagine if they are in fact too young? They will have to go through their whole lives living a lie about their age, knowing that they won a medal they didn't technically deserve. The likelihood that it was their choice to lie about their ages (if they have) is slim to none.

I know it's a different culture, but think about it in terms of the US. Your 18th and 21st birthdays are a lie, you "turn" 30, 40, 50 before you actually get there, you qualify for benefits at an earlier age than you deserve. For me the guilt and the need to keep up the ruse would take away all the joy of the medal.

So, I hope for their sakes that they really are all 16.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

Originally Posted by pbear19

I was thinking about the possibility that some of the Chinese girls are under 16 last night, and actually feeling a bit sorry for them. Can you imagine if they are in fact too young? They will have to go through their whole lives living a lie about their age, knowing that they won a medal they didn't technically deserve. The likelihood that it was their choice to lie about their ages (if they have) is slim to none.

I know it's a different culture, but think about it in terms of the US. Your 18th and 21st birthdays are a lie, you "turn" 30, 40, 50 before you actually get there, you qualify for benefits at an earlier age than you deserve. For me the guilt and the need to keep up the ruse would take away all the joy of the medal.

So, I hope for their sakes that they really are all 16.

I'm more concerned about what they may have had to give up to be part of the gymnastics program. Are they attending school or did they have to give that up for gymnastics? Are they living with their families or did they have to move away to a gymnastics school? If they are under 16, they may be able to get a few more years of gymnastics in, but what will happen to them when they are too big/too old for gymnastics and they are replaced with younger/smaller girls?

I feel like the US athletes have more of a chance at a balanced "normal" life. They practice hours and hours each day, but they still get to see their family. They still get an education, either going to school or being home-schooled. And hopefully, the combination of education and family will help them transition and adjust well to life after gymnastics.

I think, even for girls that are 16, it is an incredible amount of pressure. I cannot imagine the pressure for the Chinese girls if they are really only 10-14. The situation kinda reminds me of child actors that self-destructed after their fame ended...being used by people until they are too old and no longer useful to their handlers, being replaced by newer/younger stars in the spotlight, not being able to have a normal childhood, not getting the education needed to be able to go to college/get a job to support themselves as adults. I really hope that the Chinese gymnasts are able to avoid these pitfalls and grow into well-adjusted adults.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by SOPi_Jawbreaker

I'm more concerned about what they may have had to give up to be part of the gymnastics program. Are they attending school or did they have to give that up for gymnastics? Are they living with their families or did they have to move away to a gymnastics school? If they are under 16, they may be able to get a few more years of gymnastics in, but what will happen to them when they are too big/too old for gymnastics and they are replaced with younger/smaller girls?

According to the commentary yesterday, it was said that girls are chosen from the "pre-school" age to become gymnasts. They don't live with their families, and the families are ok with it. They were talking about the "veteran" of the Chinese team....the one who's "20" and said that at one point of her training, she wanted to leave gymnastics and be with her parents. But b/c her parents knew what it meant to be on the Chinese team, that they told her "no."

Regarding the age, I seriously doubt the girls think they are living a lie. It seems to me that the gov't issued passports are only for the Olympics, especially since they didn't show birth certificates. I also don't think the girls care IF their ages were changed. This isn't the first time that China has done this. I remember in '96 when I watched the olympics (this one had Keri Struggs, Dominique Moceanu, etc) I saw the Chinese girls and noticed they looked about my age, and I was 11. That is why Bela made the comment about the age....he's been around for many years and he's been able to see it first-hand.

I really don't see the difference if they were 14 or 16. They blew the U.S. out of the water, and even if Alicia had landed on her feet instead of her ass, I don't think the U.S. would have beat the Chinese for the gold. If those girls had legitimately waited til they were 16, imagine how much BETTER they would be. The U.S. would have definitely lost by more than 2.3 points.

I know a lot will probably disagree with me, but I think the age limit should be lowered. I don't understand why gymnasts have to be 16, but there were divers who were 15, and there was a British athlete who was around 13-14.

[ZTAngel]

When did the mandatory age come into effect? If I remember correctly, Dominique Moceanu was 14 (just shy of her 15th birthday) when she competed in 1996.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by epchick

at one point of her training, she wanted to leave gymnastics and be with her parents. But b/c her parents knew what it meant to be on the Chinese team, that they told her "no."

[Benzgirl]

Originally Posted by epchick

According to the commentary yesterday, it was said that girls are chosen from the "pre-school" age to become gymnasts. They don't live with their families, and the families are ok with it. They were talking about the "veteran" of the Chinese team....the one who's "20" and said that at one point of her training, she wanted to leave gymnastics and be with her parents. But b/c her parents knew what it meant to be on the Chinese team, that they told her "no."

And, the parents know how lucrative it is for the family. I feel bad for the exploitation of the kids

[texas*princess]

Originally Posted by pbear19

I was thinking about the possibility that some of the Chinese girls are under 16 last night, and actually feeling a bit sorry for them. Can you imagine if they are in fact too young? They will have to go through their whole lives living a lie about their age, knowing that they won a medal they didn't technically deserve. The likelihood that it was their choice to lie about their ages (if they have) is slim to none.

I know it's a different culture, but think about it in terms of the US. Your 18th and 21st birthdays are a lie, you "turn" 30, 40, 50 before you actually get there, you qualify for benefits at an earlier age than you deserve. For me the guilt and the need to keep up the ruse would take away all the joy of the medal.

So, I hope for their sakes that they really are all 16.

They won't lie about their ages their whole life.. probably only for the competitions. The "shelf life" of gymnasts probably isn't that long anyway since they [the country] will want to send their younger girls eventually since they are smaller, lighter, less afraid and all those other reasons they pick young girls.

There were many websites found with the real ages of some of those girls, and at least half of them are under 16. But they had passports (issued by the Government of course ) so they are able to compete. They will probably only use their fake age for another year or two for competitions only and by then China will have the next best girls to put in competitions.

And I don't know the Chinese culture, but I don't think they will feel bad about it when they grow up. It's just how they are condition them from infancy.

Take the little girl who sang their national anthem while the other "cuter, flawless" girl was the one on TV for the opening games. She singing girl said she didn't regret it and that it was "an honor" that they chose to use even just her voice.

It is really sad that they are taken from their families and only see them maybe once a year to be put in this 'machine', but their families are the ones who sent them there. Like someone has already mentioned the families know how lucrative it can be to have a gymnast son/daughter.

[pbear19]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

They won't lie about their ages their whole life.. probably only for the competitions. The "shelf life" of gymnasts probably isn't that long anyway since they [the country] will want to send their younger girls eventually since they are smaller, lighter, less afraid and all those other reasons they pick young girls.

There were many websites found with the real ages of some of those girls, and at least half of them are under 16. But they had passports (issued by the Government of course ) so they are able to compete. They will probably only use their fake age for another year or two for competitions only and by then China will have the next best girls to put in competitions.

I guess I'm too cynical. I can't help but picture some ambitious journalist doing a 'where are they now' segment, or a helimom who can't let go making some effort to track them down in the future. I know they won't be gymnasts for much longer, but I don't think it's completely unlikely that someone will try to prove they cheated in the future, in which case the girls would have to continue living an alleged lie.

I guess if there is some kind of statute for having a medal taken away for cheating, then it wouldn't matter. But if it's proven in 4 years that one of those girls wasn't 16 (which like it or not, is the rule, and breaking it is technically cheating, even if they won on merit), wouldn't the IOC have something to say about it?

I don't know, I still feel sorry for them for the possibility that they may be under 16, but I tend to feel empathy for people in odd ways sometimes.

[irishpipes]

I thought during the men's competition they said the floor exercise mat was like concrete? They said it didn't have enough bounce and they were worried about injuries.

I really don't like the 3 up and they all count format. I liked the 7-6-5 that the used back in Atlanta (7 total teammates, 6 compete on each apparatus, 5 scores count). The 3 up excludes so many competitors and makes the pressure unreal. It seems that it opens the door for the team who has the best competition, rather than the best team, to win the gold.