balanced man vs traditional - Page 6

GAFU SC Alpha · #76 07-17-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigepsal

the bmp was introduced to sigma phi epsilon in the wrong manner. 'forcing' chapters to convert or get shut down was the worst thing the national chapter could possibly do. because with that, the bmp came with negative connotations that have stuck.

Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

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but to say that other fraternities think we are less because of it is ridiculous

This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

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the balanced man ideal is the next step. it is not a coincidence that tons of other fraternities have copied this model and applied it accordingly.

Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

It would really suck if my beloved fraternity got the National repuation equivalent to that of someone like TKE.

sigepsal · #77 07-17-2006, 09:00 PM

[QUOTE=GAFU SC Alpha]Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

yes... i have a great idea... we educate people on what the balanced man program truly is and what it means... because a lot of the statements made show that many people don't know what it really is.

Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

you are making assumptions about bmp chapters. i could have made assumptions about traditional chapters hazing, but i don't. because that is not what traditional chapters stand for and that is not what they are about. bmp chapters are not about being stuck up, they are about making men better (what i thought our fraternity was about the whole time).

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

but why separate those 30+ guys from the rest of the fraternity? because they were born at a later date? or because they decided to join after other men. they can still do things together as a class, but why separate them as a whole.

This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

this has nothing to do with the bmp. this has to do with the members of those fraternities and them blaming the bmp for that. go talk to other fraternities at Oregon State or LMU (and I am sure there are a ton more). Or better yet, ask some of the girls there. They will tell you how SigEp dominates those campuses even though they have a BMP program

Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

LOL. Examples include: Sigma Nu's LEAD, Phi Tau's "Total Man Program" and their "Building Men of Character", SAE's True Gentlemen Program. And, as stated in earlier posts, sororities have also jumped on the bandwagon. Fraternities across the board have slowly moved to some type of development program similar to the BMP, even if they are not calling it something specific.

at no point did i ever say bmp was better than traditional. as i said before, if traditional works for you, than that is what works. but the bmp is working for a lot of chapters all around the nation. and, because of that, and because of the lack of education about the bmp i think it is irresponsible to criticize it without fully knowing it.

i think i answered most of your questions....

raider59 · #78 08-04-2006, 03:53 PM

This fall I will be going through Epsilon rite (full initiation). My observations after a year of new membership:

Things I like about the BMP:
-no hazing = no bodily harm or trips to the ER, no resentment towards actives
-required participation in IMs and community service
-required participation in house officer cabinets
-actives were nice to us and I didn't have to spend half a year being treated like I were less than a person
-The house projects are probably my favorite part of the BMP. Instead of destructive hazing, each of our sigma classes leaves their mark on our house in the form of a constructive project such as chapter tables, lawn repair, etc.

Things I don't:
-the EDGE "leadership program" was an absolute waste of time for me and every sigma from my school that went with me. The only thing it taught me was that people from my school are more well-adjusted than people from other schools.
-The aforementioned holier-than-thou attitude. Sucks.
-On top of that last point... it's become clear that there are a few people in my house who joined SigEp with the mindset that it was more of an honor society than a social fraternity. This is a bullshit attitude and it needs to stop.
-The things we can't do: "responsible" hazing. This fall when I'm fully initiated, I can't half-jokingly bark orders at sigmas to do kegstands or shots while singing the songs (as was done to me) for fear of having our charter pulled. I am told that scavenger hunts, described to me as the most entertaining event of pledgeship, might be off limits. I am not a fan of the zero-tolerance policy.
-The length of time it takes to be fully initiated: more or less twice as long as a traditional pledge period.
-The minimum GPA for recruitment: I understand that we want to stay on top of everyone academically, but you can't tell me that a potential with a 2.7 coming out of high school will wreck our house while a 3.0 guy is the perfect fit.
-Number one problem with the BMP as it applies to my chapter: apathy. The reason I wasn't as close to some of my sigma class as I would have liked is that some of them just flat out didn't show up to shit. They'd appear for parties... and that's all I would see of them. Not even coming to chapter. And we can't do anything about it. We can't kick them out because as per BMP we're not allowed to blackball sigmas. There shouldn't have to be an incentive to show up for house events, but it's a really aggravating situation for me right now.

Well, the cons list looks longer than the pros... but I didn't join SigEp because of the Balanced Man Program. I joined because I saw potential for real friendship in the brothers of the house. I in no way look down upon traditional chapters; rather, I embrace them as brothers, as I hope they would me. BMP or not, you'll find me partying at the house every weekend.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts, comments and suggestions appreciated.

bryj22 · #79 11-18-2006, 12:41 AM

I have really seen a downfall in the Greek system where I go to school. There is no quality and its just about the partying.Fraternities are supposed to be service oriented as well, giving back the the school where they are given the right to have that organization. I love my school and want to see greek life go through the roof. I wanted to start an organization that is more than just the average greek organization. Yes, partying is an important part of the college experience but why can't you work hard and then play hard. Its all about keeping your responsibilites and being balanced. That is why I feel good about bringing Sig Ep back to Arkansas State, because of the balanced man program. I have been affected by hazing myself on a haze-free campus. It doesn't build brotherhood, it built resentment. I can't say enough how much I dislike the people who drove me through line ups and kidnapped me and made me drink way too much alcohol the night before a test. Its wrong, and the balance man to me looks like away of preserving quality and giving a a group of guys with similar ideals about virtue, dilligence, and brotherly love a place where you can always go and where people who have your back. I know this may be jumbled and incoherant but fraternity to me means family...and if the balanced man brings family and than i am happy to revive Sig Ep on the campus of ASU. We already have a group of 10 guys who see this difference that we need, I hope we are making the right decision.

TopSider · #80 12-22-2006, 12:58 PM

BMP sucks. End of story. I have witnessed the true harm this does and this is why we were one of the few chapters to RETURN to traditional after BMP(and this was nationals pulled us). You have no strong ties to your pledge class. There is no reason to commit. Its basically like a club you join, pay money and show up to meetings for. Since there is nothing to go through, there is no reason to stay loyal and dedicated to the frat. I went through hazing and all and I am a loyal, die hard SigEp, however, our reputation around the country sucks b/c of BMP we just let anyone and everyone in and we dont weed these guys out during pledgship. For instane, I met a group od SigEp's traveling through about a year ago, there were 6 of them, 3 were gay. I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

TopSider · #81 12-22-2006, 01:22 PM

Additionally, BMP does not encourage young men to fully trust one another by trial and hardship

CutiePie2000 · #82 12-22-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrueSPE

I don't know about Southern Miss. RLC stands for Residential Learning Community, nationals' retarded new name for "fraternity house." God I hate nationals.

I have to say, "Residential Learning Community" is a really terrible name. It sounds weird and cult-like, like the Kouresh compound in Waco, TX or something like that.

Senusret I · #83 12-22-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

I have to say, "Residential Learning Community" is a really terrible name. It sounds weird and cult-like, like the Kouresh compound in Waco, TX or something like that.

Maybe Living and Learning Community?

Leadership Immersion Community?

I mean, RLC sounds generic, but I do understand that they're trying to shift a paradigm.

33girl · #84 12-22-2006, 02:29 PM

How about Brotherhood Community?

If you go too generic, no one will know what you mean - and I can see why brothers would object. It's almost like they're trying to cover up that it's a fraternity.

moe.ron · #85 01-14-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TopSider

I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

You would hate to meet our chapter, our past alumni board President was gay, tons of minorities, and probably some low class white trash mix in with rugby players, football players, preppies and hippiers. Oh yeah, we're traditional.

Probably would not approve of me wearing the letter, since I'm Asian. Don't worry though, nothing but brotherly love for you.

traditional1 · #86 06-20-2007, 06:48 AM

I'm third generation sigep. My grandfather was president of his chapter. My dad was in the same chapter and was a Pledge Adviser, hopefully keeping poor pledges from the wrath of the PM. I am now in a different, but still traditional chapter as the screen name implies. "Sigma Phi Kappa" isn't taken, anyone willing to tell nationals that we don't want people calling our house "sigma phi everyone" anymore and we wish them and the BMP the best of luck? "Kappa stands for the knowledge of what it means to have a place in the brotherhood." ~ the new symbolism... While I don't blame any balanced man chapter individually, they simply either didn't have a choice or didn't know better. BMP does accomplish national's goals. It creates huge membership boost and revenue boost, and decreases insurance costs. When nationals decided it was in the brotherhood BUSINESS is when our fraternity got screwed over. The only thing BMP balances is the budget , forsaking our brotherhood. Balanced Man people don't know what it means to be a SigEp... unless they met a pledge master, somehow, who was kind enough to show them. traditional members worked hard for their letters. And I don't care who you recruit, we recruit oddballs and douches all the time, some leave, some make it... many of them are my good friends, but if they don't have to work for it, it degrades the brotherhood. If you're a BM and want to meet a pledge master... me and my pledge class would be more than happy to share ours with you. He was a profound individual who could teach you a lesson just by looking at you, and when we were initiated finally, he was the first to welcome us and tell us the party had started. That is what this fraternity should be.

Scones · #87 06-24-2007, 09:23 PM

Traditional,

What you experience is a god-given right, a tradition of pledgeship that has been on this Earth since the first days of man. This brotherhood that you build through your toils and troubles is immeasurable to any BMP. Yet, you can't compare apples to oranges. But they're both still some goddamn fruit.

Yes, BMP is a program that makes nationals look good, and it protects many old asses. Sure, SigEp took the less dangerous road and listened to the growing concerns of today's anti-greek society. But we have had to adapt and change to fit the mold of our ever-growing 'plastic' America. If you want to fix BMP, fix our messed up America first.

But take my words to heart, BROTHERHOOD is not dead at my BMP. It may have a few weak links, it may have men who don't deserve. But I'll be goddamned if I tell you they know what it means to truly be a SigEp.

My BMP brothers earn their understanding, and what they reap they shall sow. That is BMP.