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  #76  
Old 06-08-2004, 06:39 PM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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TTT/Spelman professor on Cosby and "afrostocracy"

I don't completely agree with this professor's POV, but he does make me think.

Past Imperfect: The Cosby Show

Cosby's recent remarks are nothing shocking: the afrostocracy has been criticizing its more ghetto cousins for decades.


By William Jelani Cobb

The old maxim warns us to beware of priests who lose their faith but keep their jobs. By that logic, a whole lot of alleged spokespersons for black people should've been unemployed a long time ago. In the wake of Bill Cosby's now-famous Pound Cake Speech at the NAACP Legal Defense Fund's dinner commemorating the Brown v. Board of Education case, the comedian has been praised by white conservatives and black folk at large for essentially keeping it real. For airing dirty laundry. For saying in public what your uncle Bobby has been saying behind closed doors for years.
But hold on. Before you fix your mouth to sing Cosby's praises, consider this: the fact that some black people make similar comments in private does not make them any more accurate when they are spoken in public.

"Respectable" blacks have long felt it necessary to clean up, dust off and lead their less fortunate cousins into the promised land of social acceptance.
When it all gets down to the get-down, black people are no more immune to believing stereotypes about African Americans than anyone else — and Cosby's podium-pounding was full of the grossest stereotypes of poor black people. Even if you agreed with his hyperbolic claims of $500 sneakers taking precedence over Hooked on Phonics in the hood, even if you signed on to his 21st Century bootstrap prescriptions ("You can't blame white people for this"), it's impossible to ignore the classist, bigoted and reactionary underpinnings of his disdain for giving black children names like Shaniqua or Ali, or his justification of police shooting people in the back of the head for "stealing pound cake." (I have to wonder what Cosby would say to me, a black man with a Ph.D. and no criminal record, who has, nonetheless, had police pull guns on him three times in his life — once by an officer demanding that I walk on the sidewalk and not the street.)
In the wake of Amadou Diallo and Abner Louima, in the wake of literally dozens of black people being arrested and imprisoned on false evidence in Tulia, Texas, two years ago, these comments are not only ignorant, but also extremely dangerous.

Amid all the national clatter that Cosby's comments have generated, it would be easy to miss the fact that there is nothing particularly new about his indictments — his prescriptions fit into a century-old program of bourgeois behavior modification directed at poor black people from their purportedly better-off kinfolk. The historian Evelyn Brooks Higginbotham has come up with a name for this phenomenon, referring to the idea that personal etiquette is a form of racial uplift as "the politics of respectability." Since at least as far back as the days when Du Bois announced his Talented Tenth program, the afrostocracy has felt it necessary to clean up, dust off and lead their less fortunate cousins into the promised land of social acceptance. Call this Negro Noblesse Oblige. This concern wasn't totally altruistic: black elites recognized that, in the reductive racial reasoning of the United States, the embarrassing behavior of poor black people would always compromise their own bourgeois standing. (This class tension led Tennessee to experiment with first-class and second-class sections within its segregated railroad cars.)

And though the two clashed bitterly on matters of personality and policy, both Booker T. Washington and Du Bois found common ground in advocating moral uplift among the Negro masses. Du Bois lamented in the pages of his masterful Philadelphia Negro that moral corruption and vice were the major afflictions among the newly arrived Southern migrants. Booker T. Washington famously urged his followers to become models of thriftiness, cleanliness and religious adherence, believing this would clear the way to racial uplift. During the same era, Elijah Montgomery, the founder of the all-black town of Mound Bayou, Mississippi, banned the sale of liquor in the area and conducted house-to-house investigations of the domestic arrangements of residents, ordering all couples who were not legally married to leave the district.

The question is not whether or not we've overcome, but whether some of us are too ghetto to even deserve to.
In the early 20th century, organizations like the National Association of Colored Women and the Women's Convention of the National Baptist Convention, keenly aware of the prevailing stereotypes of black female sexuality, advocated a program of abstinence and "virtue" as a means of defending their own collective honor. A nearly obsessive concern with personal behavior ties together movements as diverse as Garveyism, the Montgomery Bus Boycott (whose leadership quietly jettisoned the case of a young black teen who had been arrested for refusing to give up her seat months before Rosa Parks when it was discovered that she was pregnant and unmarried), the Nation of Islam and the activities of the National Urban League. (Urban Leaguers met newly arrived migrants with care packages that included soap, toothbrushes and lists of life "instructions" — which included warnings not to come outside with rollers in their hair or keep livestock in their yards.)

Taken on its face, a "morality" agenda — however that is defined — may have been useful; unplanned pregnancy and crime did negatively impact black people's lives. The problem, however, lies in the theory that this "morality" would somehow vanquish racism — which has as its underlying premise the inability to recognize any black person as moral in the first place. And "morality" has frequently been conflated with a simple, assimilationist ideal of white behavior — which is why Cosby could so easily lump naming a child "LaQuita" or speaking non-standard English into the same category as theft and disdain for education. When you get down to it, how decent can you be when you saddle your kids with names like that? What kind of person — besides a whole lot of those who were fighting off police dogs in Birmingham — doesn't bother to conjugate correctly? The question is not whether or not we've overcome, but whether some of us are too ghetto to even deserve to.

This respectability politic also ties together Cosby's entire career, from his days playing a Rhodes Scholar on I-Spy to his role as the successful obstetrician Heathcliff Huxtable on The Cosby Show and his noted criticism of Eddie Murphy for his use of profanity and sexual subject matter. In a society built upon one-dimensional, pathological views of black life Cosby's body of work — and his support for historically black colleges — is commendable. But positive imagery and philanthropic good deeds don't justify what is essentially hate speech. (This is some serious isht -- ST)

Truth told, reactionary, elitist, stereotypical and inappropriate as they were, there was really nothing black-specific in Cosby's comments. Every ethnic group in this country has experienced this dynamic of intra-group embarrassment. (I have long believed that the NAACP should give Jerry Springer an image award for pulling back the sheets on white American dysfunctionality.) [ST says CTFU!] And rich people have been declaring poor people immoral since the days of feudalism; the irony is that we've only recently generated black people who were rich enough to be taken seriously.

Ultimately, Cosby was right: we can't solely blame white people for this contempt for the black poor. There are plenty of black people who are responsible too. But most of them are not named Shaniqua.


First published: June 7, 2004

About the Author

William Jelani Cobb is an assistant professor of history at Spelman College and editor of The Essential Harold Cruse. He can be reached at creative.ink@jelanicobb.com. Visit his website at www.jelanicobb.com.
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  #77  
Old 06-08-2004, 07:06 PM
abaici abaici is offline
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First of all, I love Dr. Cobb (I wish he was at Spelman when I was there)

I agree with alot of his points. I initially found the speech elitist and felt Cos was out of touch. However, I think Cobb presents an interesting viewpoint by placing his comments within a wider context

Truth told, reactionary, elitist, stereotypical and inappropriate as they were, there was really nothing black-specific in Cosby's comments. Every ethnic group in this country has experienced this dynamic of intra-group embarrassment. (I have long believed that the NAACP should give Jerry Springer an image award for pulling back the sheets on white American dysfunctionality.) [ST says CTFU!] And rich people have been declaring poor people immoral since the days of feudalism; the irony is that we've only recently generated black people who were rich enough to be taken seriously.


Also, I agree with Soror ST. That last statement is pretty strong (I wonder if he caught any flack for that). But, just as Cos was allowed to critique an entire segment of the black population, I feel it's only fair that his statements are critiqued as well. His statements should not be accepted as the gospel truth.


This respectability politic also ties together Cosby's entire career, from his days playing a Rhodes Scholar on I-Spy to his role as the successful obstetrician Heathcliff Huxtable on The Cosby Show and his noted criticism of Eddie Murphy for his use of profanity and sexual subject matter. In a society built upon one-dimensional, pathological views of black life Cosby's body of work — and his support for historically black colleges — is commendable. But positive imagery and philanthropic good deeds don't justify what is essentially hate speech. (This is some serious isht -- ST)
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  #78  
Old 06-08-2004, 07:12 PM
Steeltrap Steeltrap is offline
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@Soror abaici

See, here's some good dialogue that comes from the resurrection of this topic.
Plus, I found this on Africana.com from journalist Amy Alexander on why was Uncle Cos eviscerated while Chris Rock and others who say the same thing were given a pass:

http://africana.com/columns/alexande...40601cosby.asp

As an aside, I don't agree with Ms. Alexander putting Debra Dickerson in the same vein as Armstrong Williams.
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  #79  
Old 06-26-2004, 07:53 AM
jaydot31 jaydot31 is offline
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I think that Bill is right (except when he said that you can't become a doctor speaking that way...but I understand what he's saying). Sometimes you have to say things that aren't popular with the people in to create a "stir." I think that he did a great job. We are talking about it.

Roooo
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  #80  
Old 07-01-2004, 09:53 PM
CrimsonTide4 CrimsonTide4 is offline
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Cosby Has Harsh Words for Black Community


By DON BABWIN, Associated Press Writer

CHICAGO - Bill Cosby (news) went off on another tirade against the black community Thursday, telling a room full of activists that black children are running around not knowing how to read or write and "going nowhere."

He also had harsh words for struggling black men, telling them: "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."
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  #81  
Old 07-01-2004, 09:57 PM
33girl 33girl is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
[He also had harsh words for struggling black men, telling them: "Stop beating up your women because you can't find a job."


I noticed he looks bald in that pic - is he shaving his head or just going bald?
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  #82  
Old 07-02-2004, 12:16 AM
msn4med1975 msn4med1975 is offline
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That looks like a shave job to me. This reminds me of Our Kind of People and the flack that arose cause we were allegedly airing dirty laundry about our "upper crust" and color issues within the community. If it's wrapped up in comedy we can giggle about it and go home but for some reason if we just lay it out there, in a book or in Cosby's case in a speech they will get attacked. I don't agree with EVERYTHING that's been said but I know that we have to start making some hard changes and soon.
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  #83  
Old 07-02-2004, 02:39 AM
abaici abaici is offline
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Angry AGAIN...

Later for speeches and all of the rhetoric. We talk too d@%# much! Ok, we all KNOW that problems exist in our community (actually, not just OUR community). It's time to get our hands dirty and get out there are start raising our children, mentoring, and SOLVING the problems.
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  #84  
Old 07-02-2004, 03:53 AM
1savvydiva 1savvydiva is offline
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Re: AGAIN...

Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
Later for speeches and all of the rhetoric. We talk too d@%# much! Ok, we all KNOW that problems exist in our community (actually, not just OUR community). It's time to get our hands dirty and get out there are start raising our children, mentoring, and SOLVING the problems.
Just wanted to quote it, cause it bears repeating.
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  #85  
Old 07-02-2004, 08:17 AM
Dionysus Dionysus is offline
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Re: AGAIN...

Quote:
Originally posted by abaici
Later for speeches and all of the rhetoric. We talk too d@%# much! Ok, we all KNOW that problems exist in our community (actually, not just OUR community). It's time to get our hands dirty and get out there are start raising our children, mentoring, and SOLVING the problems.
Especially ol' Billy one. He's a billionaire, isn't he?
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  #86  
Old 07-02-2004, 08:31 AM
TheEpitome1920 TheEpitome1920 is offline
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I heard snippets of his speech on the Today Show and I'm glad someone is saying these things. Especially the part about "I don't care what White folks think about me" We want people to put our issues in nice little statements but sometimes it needs to be said a certain way to get people's attention. I guess we are just shocked to hear it from Dr. Cosby.
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  #87  
Old 07-02-2004, 08:55 AM
mccoyred mccoyred is offline
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Go, frat!

I think Bill has earned the right to speak his mind, especially at his age and his station in life. As mentioned before, Bill grew up in the projects of North Philly (not far from where my mom grew up!) and he has worked hard to achieve and make something of himself. His question as to why many of our folks can't do the same is valid.

One of the negatives of intergration is that we (Black folks) are scattered everywhere and we really don't have media outlets for just us. So anything that needs to be said to Black folks must be said in a public forum where everyone who is interested can listen therefore much dirty laundry will be exposed.

We need to stop trying to hide the dirty laundry in the corner. Instead, we need to wash it!
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  #88  
Old 07-02-2004, 08:56 AM
Exquisite5 Exquisite5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I heard snippets of his speech on the Today Show and I'm glad someone is saying these things. Especially the part about "I don't care what White folks think about me" We want people to put our issues in nice little statements but sometimes it needs to be said a certain way to get people's attention. I guess we are just shocked to hear it from Dr. Cosby.
I concur. I saw the snippet on the Today Show this morning as well and I agreed with what he had to say. I even agreed with the CONTENT of what he said previously regarding Afrocentric and made-up (for lack of a better term) names. I don't believe that discriminating on the basis of one's name is correct, but I am not so heavy in denial to believe that it does not occur.
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  #89  
Old 07-02-2004, 09:19 AM
CrimsonTide4 CrimsonTide4 is offline
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by TheEpitome1920
I heard snippets of his speech on the Today Show and I'm glad someone is saying these things. Especially the part about "I don't care what White folks think about me" We want people to put our issues in nice little statements but sometimes it needs to be said a certain way to get people's attention. I guess we are just shocked to hear it from Dr. Cosby.

I agree with Bill. Chris Rock says the same things in his comedy act. . . .Bill is a comedian too.

Folks say this stuff everyday.
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  #90  
Old 07-02-2004, 09:28 AM
UpPinkies UpPinkies is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by CrimsonTide4
I agree with Bill. Chris Rock says the same things in his comedy act. . . .Bill is a comedian too.

Folks say this stuff everyday.

Total agreement. I listened to what he said and those things are happening in the black community. Hell, as a person (Cosby) who donates his personal funds to colleges and always stressed the importance of an education, he does have something to say. We always want our black leaders to take a stand, then when they state facts we jump on them because they are airing "dirty laundry".

One morning my mom and I were going somewhere and our neighbor steps our the house cussing her children up and down, call them all sorts of MF's. I just started thinking, what is up with that! Her kids are little. My mom jumped on me about my stuff, but she never called me out of my name like that. I felt sorry for those little kids. But that this new generation for ya. So we just leave her alone.
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