the right to choose

[Shelacious]

I guess I'll just say that all you can do is find an organization you like, one you feel best suites your short and long-term goals and go for it. If you like the principles, the ideals, the women of the sorority, then the onus is on you to apply for membership. I didn't join Zeta Phi Beta because it was a "black sorority" nor because I felt that I would be accepted by Zeta (or AKA, DST, SGRho) and not by Phi Sigma Sigma (or Alpha Phi or AGD-- the NPC groups on my campus)--I could have been "rejected" by any or none of those groups. I joined Zeta because it was the very best sorority for me in keeping with why I was looking to join a sorority. The same could be said about NPC groups. If you find something you like about XYZ, then do those things necessary to join, and forget about whether you will be accepted as a black person--if you are not accepted and it seems to be because of racial background, make your decision at that point if it really is the organization for you, and that will determine whether you try again, or maybe try something else.

BTW, I am just not one of the those folks who looks at prospects "regardless of race." The Latina and Asian women who've applied for membership under my watch were fully aware that I took their ethnicity into consideration before offering them membership. Being a member of an ethnic group in America usually colors the way you look at "everything", and to ignore that fact is to minimize the legitimate differences that will arise, even if all the folks involved are members of "minority" groups. I respect their ethnicity enough to understand that if they became members, the chapter would need to be sensitive to their belief systems and cultural differences, as well as they be sensitive to ours.

[showstopper_1908]

Originally posted by LatinaAlumna


Another question: So then, how do you explain a campus like the one I went to, with the majority of students being non-caucasian (because minorities sometimes DO go to college), but yet, some of the IFC/NPC houses on campus did not have more than 1-2 "minority" students out of 100+ active members? I don't think it was for lack of "minority" students on campus, or even lack of "minority" students in the rush process...because some houses were VERY diverse.

(I put the word minority in quotes because in some places, people of color are the majority.)

I would have to agree with you on this one. I don't know if that person lives in the sticks or what, but at my University (from what I see), white students are not the majority. The only IFC Fraternity on campus is predominately white. We don't have any NPHC Fraternities on my campus either. Organizations will pick who they want, and this varies campus to campus, chapter to chapter. I know a lot of men who are not caucasion who would like to be memebers, but it doesn't happen for one reason or another. On the flip side, speaking for my own chapter, we don't have a slew of white or asian women seeking membership. There isn't 1 white female that I can think of on my campus right now who is Greek, and we have 4 Sororities to choose from. If they do join organizations, they tend to choose the local orgs who both claim to be multicultural, (however 10 years ago they were known as the all Jewish white girl sororities). Organizations try to change their image with the times. I can only speak for my organization and my campus. Anyone reading this who is thinking of being Greek, please don't take our comments for 100% factual as applying to every campus. See what the people at your school have to offer you. Don't shoot them down because of what you "think" that you know about them. If I would have done that, I may have ended up in another Sorority and I know for a fact that I would have ended up unhappy! That organization ran into a bit of trouble on my campus and would I have not looked into AKA and chose to ditch the other ladies, I would have been sitting around twiddling my thumbs maybe not being Greek at all. I was told to do my research and I will know what is right for me. I am so glad that I took that advice and didn't jump into something just because my friends did.

P.S.- If an organization doesn't want you due to your race, is that an organization that you'd really want to become a member of anyway? Or, would you try to change their minds and their rules (written or unwritten)? Anyone can answer this.

Tata for now and Happy Holidays!

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by showstopper_1908

P.S.- If an organization doesn't want you due to your race, is that an organization that you'd really want to become a member of anyway? Or, would you try to change their minds and their rules? Anyone can answer this.

Do you mean the chapter or the whole organization itself?

[APhiAngel]

Your race should not be a problem when you decide to rush. If it is then those people are not worth your time and efforts. My chapter has all kinds of races. We did not make it a big deal because it does not matter.

[FuzzieAlum]

There was a line on Andy Richter recently about "celebrating and ignoring all the things that make us different and exactly the same," which was a joke, but I think it is what a good chapter of any org should be doing. In order to strive for diversity, something chapters ought to be doing in lots of areas besides race, you have to see the differences between people (and I find it hard to believe a person doesn't notice another's race). But you also have to see the person for a lot more than that. No one wants to be the token anything in their chapter. (And that includes the token athlete, the token fat girl, the token out-of-state girl.) No one should have to be limited to the D9 because they're African American or the the NPC groups because they're white - but no one wants to get into a GLO just so the group can prove they're open-minded, either.

Smiley, what you're going through is something a lot of rushees go through - the perception that some sororities are looking for X and you're not it. Unfortunately this is true in some cases, whether we're talking weight, popularity, or race - but that's the exception and not the rule. Race is so much more a loaded issue, though, than, "I think they're really a glamorous sorority, and I don't know if I'm cool enough." So yeah, people are going on tangents that aren't exactly helpful to you.

I would advise you to look at the options on your campus, and go with an organization that you can believe in, and that you think believes in you as a person, not as a symbol or as a body to fill up the house with. But that's the same advice I'd give to any rushee.

The Greek system is large and diverse, and I wouldn't give up just because you find some people off-putting. After all, there are weird universities and weird companies out there, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go to college or work for a corporation. It just means you need to pick a good one.

[Dionysus]

You know what? HONESTLY I believe that you, smiley, will get more flack from those outside your sorority. For example, people from other "WGLOs" and your black friends and relatives.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by astroAPhi
I think a lot of the reason why some of our chapters don't have more women of different races is because minorities sometimes don't go to college.

No, I can't believe that was what I just read. How do you explain me, then? Or the fact that not a single black person I know has received an athletic scholarship (but are at Ivy League schools--which don't give athletic or academic scholarships, and have received merit scholarships to the best colleges in the country), but I can think of about 20 non-minorities who are going to school to play football? Give me a break. Non-minorities "sometimes don't go to college."

Anyway, that's not the reason why there aren't women of color in some NPC chapters (and before anyone starts whining, I'm in an NPC group). Until about 1950, there were discriminatory clauses in most (if not all) national sororities' bylaws (except the NPHC groups). There are some schools today where a black, Asian, Jewish, or Latina female will get cut from all of the sororities during the FIRST ROUND of recruitment. There are plenty of minorities in college (there could be more, but hey). The NPHC groups were founded to provide a similar experience for black women who were SHUT OUT of other groups, or attended HBCUs. There's just not that much interest among most to join an NPC sorority, especially after such a long history of racial segregation. It's a painful history, but in order to make a truly educated decision about whether to join an NPC or NPHC group, it's something one has to realize.

Smiley, I PMed you.

[Strive]

If you do decide to be a part of a sorority, do it because of the sorority rich heritage and tradition. Not because the sisters are nice to you. I pledge Zeta Phi Beta because of what it stood. You really need to read up on sorority history.

Don't join sorority and realize that it was not what you really wanted.

I will e-mail you about choosing a sorority. It is written for the NPHC, but you can use it for any affiliation.

Good Luck on your search. Keep me inform about your decision.

[showstopper_1908]

Originally posted by Dionysus


Do you mean the chapter or the whole organization itself?

I don't know of any Greek orgs that NATIONALLY state that they will not accept people of XYZ race, so we will just stick to the chapters.

[astroAPhi]

Whoa whoa people, don't go ape$hit on me. That is the way it is where I'm from. I think it's stupid as well, alright?

Geez, I knew I shoulda deleted that right after I posted it because I knew someone was going to take it the WRONG FRICKING WAY. That's the way it is where I grew up and where I go to school now as well.

I'm glad for the guy who was in a gang and turned himself around and got a 4.0 and is in med school. I didn't say people can't escape it, but from where I'm from they often don't. The success stories from Chicago are the athletes.

[phisigduchesscv]

Smiley,
Don't give up on Greeks just because of the discussions here. As with anything, good or bad, realize we are only a small representative of the Greek world as a whole. And what we are representative of may or may not be what your school is like.
I grew up and still live in the city of Carson which is a suburb of Los Angeles. At one point we were the most racially diverse city in the US with, give or take a few points, approximately 25% each Asian, Black, White, and Latino. When I was in kindergarten through 12th grade there were times when I as a Caucasian was the minority in my classes. I now attend and work at California State University Dominguez Hills which has been recognized in higher education as a diverse University. We are known as a Hispanic Serving Institution and we've been recoginzed for serving African Americans. Again give or take some percentage points we're still fairly mixed up with about 30-35% hispanic, 25-30% black, 20-25% white, with Asians and declined to state or multiracial making up the mix. Anyway, because of this background it's almost inconceivable for me as I read about Greeks at other schools where it may be a problem to be a "minority". I just don't understand the concept that race can even play into being chosen for a sorority or not and yet I know that in other regions of the country there are still issues about race and whether someone should be accepted or not. And I also realize that in some schools because I am a fat woman I may not have been invited in to a sorority, in other areas that wouldn't have played a factor. I joined my sorority as a 32 year old. most sororities with formal rush would probably have dropped me from the very beginning and yet at my school where the average age is 28/29 it's not as unusual to see sororities with women from 18 to 30-something. It all comes down to the cultural of the school and the women in the sororities.
All I can say is look at all the groups, NPC and NPHC. Check out their websites, get to know the women in each of the chapters if at all possible, see if you can strongly support their philanthropy or not. Go to all the recruitment events, see how each of the sisters treat each other and interested women, look at what type of bond they have and then choose the one that is best for you. Ignore race as you ask it to be ignored for you. Ignore whether they are know on campus as the pretty or fat girls, the ones who like to party or the brains. What you are looking for is an organization that after you have graduated you will want to still be a part of (hopefully as an active Alumnae) and will always be proud to say "I am a member of XYZ" not "I was a member of XYZ while in College". Being Greek and being in a sorority is for Life not just the 4 years in college.
I hope you will continue with the decision to join a sorority, you truly won't regret it.
Carolyn

[justamom]

Sweetie, you have gotten a lot of "warm fuzzies" on this thread.
You have also received some information that has been heartfelt.
Many will disagree with what I'm going to say, but "OH WELL..."
EDITED TO ADD THIS IS THE SOUTH!
What is important to you?
Short term-consider the "attitude" of the Greek System as a whole, the campus and the general region. Example-there is RUMORED to be a black member of a high profile soro at LSU (...but she doesn't LOOK black ). This information is not put out there for all to know. WHY? You tell me? Could it be that some INDIVIDUAL members of fraternities and other sororities find this BIG NEWS? That's not a comfortable position to be in. Whether it's true or not, the very idea that this RUMOR exists is troubling. Personally, I wouldn't want to be the focus of this kind of attention. Diversity is great, but a full Greek life means you will come in contact EVERY DAY with people who may not be as open minded as your sisters. If the fraternities are diverse, then you know the Greeks as a whole are progressive thinkers.

Long term-Who KNOWS where you will end up north, south, east or west. Do you see being active in a GLO in your later years? Your "acceptance" in one region doesn't automatically translate into acceptance in another. I wish it weren't so, but it is. I strongly recommend you look into all possibilities. It may be a breeze for you and I'm sure the experience, as many have pointed out from their personal knowledge, could be beautiful. Things ARE changing as you see from these responses, but Greek Chat is comprised of an exceptional group of people, many do not share the same level of love and respect for ALL mankind. Not everyone is a Tom Earp, sad to say... As so many have said, examine the reasons why you want to be in a GLO. Then, decide what level of involvement you may consider in the future. Who will you be involved with on a social level? In order for ANYTHING to change, people have to keep chipping away at the old dogmas.
When all is said and done, it really WILL be a mutual selection and if you find one (NPC, NPHC or other) that suits you, you will be happy. I hope I didn't offend anyone-my apologies if Idid.

[MoxieGrrl]

Originally posted by showstopper_1908


P.S.- If an organization doesn't want you due to your race, is that an organization that you'd really want to become a member of anyway? Or, would you try to change their minds and their rules (written or unwritten)? Anyone can answer this.

Tata for now and Happy Holidays!

To answer this question, hell no! I am unsure of the history of KD's membership policies, but I know that if I found out that we excluded people because of race/religion/anything else unecessary, I would seriously reconsider my membership. Being a decent human being with morals is more important to me than being a sorority member. If I knew of a chapter that discriminated? You better believe I would let someone at Headquarters know ASAP!

[starang21]

Originally posted by White_Chocolate
touchy subject

i'm black and because the nphc sorority that i wanted wasn't on my campus but i soooo badly wanted to be greek. i rushed npc.

i went through rush with this preconceived notion that no one was going to want me. . .because i was the oddball and everyone else was blonde with the exception of a brunette. the brunette and i ended up hanging out all during rush. we didn't think we'd get in anything.

i thought that i was going to get cut after the first night. however, i ended up getting invited back to all of the sororities including the 'it' sorority. on into the week, i got cut from one sorority because of GPA but then again, so did half of the rush group. anyway, by the last night, i was torn between the 'it' sorority and phi sigma sigma. i cried for an hour because i didn't want to cut someone in the event that i didn't get either sorority. however, after talking to my rho chi, i made the heartfelt decision and put phi sigma sigma as my choice.

the greatest feeling was on bid day, i was so nervous that i waited as long as possible to go get my bid card. but when i went down to get it and walked out with my rush class. . .the phi sigs tackled me to the ground. i swear i wanted to start crying there.

so, if you go through rush(and unless you feel like they are blatantly not wanting you because of race), you'll end up with a group.

i am now vice archon of my chapter. . .and the brunette. . .well, she's my archon.


'We ain't going nowhere. . .we can't be stopped.. .because we're Phi Sigs for life. . .' (P. Diddy version by dj Mo B)

if that particular sorority was truly in your heart, you should have checked out other schools that have it.

[starang21]

Originally posted by smiley21
hello. there is something that concerning me quite a bit. i am a (and i say this hesitantly) black girl and i very much want to rush soon. but the thing is that i dont want to be apart of a black sorority. i dont like the idea of being apart of a group that is exclusive to one race. i am definitely not trying to degrade black sororities. i know that they are great groups. i know that the npc sororities are generally all white. i also know that black girls join these sororities probably for the same reasons i want to. but how often does this happen? i am suddenly scared that i wont be in a sorority because i am black. i dont know. i am just confused. help!

i got a question, why would you be hesitant to say you're black? oh and by the way, HBGLO's aren't exclusive to one race. i'm asian, and i'm in a black fraternity.