Hazing is wrong......That's why WE don't do it!!!!!

[PsiU1833]

If a brother's parents were to actually sue for hazing it would be on the chapter not nationals. Also if a chapter were to be lost it really wouldnt cause the whole fraternity to be done with or even that much harm, there is actually talk of closing a number of chapters (does not have to due with hazing just interfraternal politics). If you think hazing is the worse thing to close a chapter for, then u need to wake up and stop being so niave. As for what nationals would think of the chapters that haze, ill tell u what they say, its wrong and all that stuff you all spout off about. Do nationals know what chapters haze? im not going to answer that. As for the whole house meaning something to them, i wasnt the one who said it, my friend said it to me so im just going off of what he said. Anyways this is like trying to reason with a vegan about why people eat meat so im done talking about this. If ur chapter hazes good luck (just dont do anything stupid like anything to do with any type of feces) and if ur chapter doesnt haze good luck to you as well.

I not good at spelling so sorry about that.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by PsiU1833
If a brother's parents were to actually sue for hazing it would be on the chapter not nationals. Also if a chapter were to be lost it really wouldnt cause the whole fraternity to be done with or even that much harm, there is actually talk of closing a number of chapters (does not have to due with hazing just interfraternal politics).

Actually, if you'll browse through the Risk Management forum a little, you'll see that there are plenty of cases where a chapter got in trouble for hazing, and the national organization was sued. In fact, in some cases, when somebody brought up a lawsuit against a fraternity, they sued the individuals involved, the chapter AND the national fraternity. The national HQ is usually the one to get sued, though, because they have far more money than the individual chapters and the people want as much money out of it as they can get. As for the closing of chapters causing national bankruptcy -- it's not simply the closing of the chapter that will do it, it's the lawsuit. According to those who have seen the financial standings of fraternities, it would only take one big succcessful lawsuit against even the biggest fraternities (Sig Ep, Sigma Chi, etc.) to bankrupt them. Most fraternities don't have that much money. One of the smaller groups wouldn't even need a big lawsuit, just a medium size one. When you haze, you're putting your fraternity in danger of being closed down. It's that simple.

It seems to me like SuperSister hit on something, too. You can't be sure how hazing (even the "innocent" kind) is going to affect people. Sure, there are going to be those who thrive with hazing. There are going to be people who would have made great brothers or sisters who leave because they don't want to put up with the hazing. There are going to be those who rebel against it. It seems like this spring's season of "Sorority Life" and "Fraternity Life" would be enough to show you that people react to hazing in different ways, that hazing doesn't always cement pledge classes the way it's supposed to. The people who say that they WANT to be hazed because it builds unity and trust are pretty uncreative, because there are plenty of ways to build unity and trust without hazing, and there are plenty of people for whom hazing would have the exact opposite effect. The only meaning it has is what you put into it.

[g41965]

I think hazing is wrong and immoral. As one of the older members of this board ,38, I lived through hellweek, rallies/line ups, walks & other forms of stupidity. In1986 I spearheaded a movement to abolish hazing in my chapter, we didn't get rid of everything but abuse was reduced substantially. I caught a lot of grief pushing a "no hazing policy", remember I did go to school in Texas and a lot of guys thought if you were anti hazing you were weak.
All of this being said I think the modern definition of what constites hazing is a bit broad, examples:
We had a three story house with front and back stairs. Pledges were not allowed on the front spiral staircase under penalty of possible blackball. hazing? I dont think so. We also required pledges to work cleaning up the house on Sunday from 8:00- 10:00 a.m. hazing ? I don't think so. Pledges sat at separate tables at chapter dinner on Monday night and had to wear coat and tie. They also had to stand when our housemother came in for dinner. I don't call these activies hazing.
Hazing is painful and or dangerous physical activity or extreme verbal abuse. Bottom line I don't think its hazing to make pledges earn initiation by showing responsibility, respect and discipline.
What does everyone else think?

[shadokat]

PsiU, I encourage you to do a search for the Alpha Kappa Alpha thread that deals with 2 women whose families are suing the chapter, the international sorority among others for approximately $10 million dollars. Sorry, I mean no disrespect to AKA as a whole, because you're a fabulous organization, but this is one instance I can remember off the top of my head.

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by PsiU1833
If a brother's parents were to actually sue for hazing it would be on the chapter not nationals. Also if a chapter were to be lost it really wouldnt cause the whole fraternity to be done with or even that much harm, there is actually talk of closing a number of chapters (does not have to due with hazing just interfraternal politics). If you think hazing is the worse thing to close a chapter for, then u need to wake up and stop being so niave. As for what nationals would think of the chapters that haze, ill tell u what they say, its wrong and all that stuff you all spout off about. Do nationals know what chapters haze? im not going to answer that. As for the whole house meaning something to them, i wasnt the one who said it, my friend said it to me so im just going off of what he said. Anyways this is like trying to reason with a vegan about why people eat meat so im done talking about this. If ur chapter hazes good luck (just dont do anything stupid like anything to do with any type of feces) and if ur chapter doesnt haze good luck to you as well.

I not good at spelling so sorry about that.

When people file law suits, they go after the deepest pockets which usually means the Headquarters and the college.