Who's Out? Interesting site about gay members of greek orgs

[zchi2]

Even though that last post from Phin2left was a little furious, why are you all so upset about that person commenting on the things that were posted here. No one got mad at everyone picking apart my posts. I guess since I haven't posted over 100 messages on this site, it means I'm not respected and than it ok to chop me up. All WE are doing is stating our opinions on the site and that is what phin2left felt about some of the comments that some people were making.

[kddani]

zchi2- the biggest issue is the way he did it and the way he made personal attacks on people for no reason.

Someone just told me a great quote: "attack the issue, not the person"

Which is incredibly pertinent here. However, if i'm attacked, i'm sure as hell gonna fight back.

[DWAlphaGam]

zchi2, I apologize for saying you were getting too defensive a few posts back (although you could probably say the same thing about me right now, I suppose). That's probably about as close as I came to "picking apart" your posts, as you said (I haven't gone back and read anything else I wrote, so I'm not sure). As for Phins2left, I don't think that there were grounds to personally attack me for beliefs that I don't have. It doesn't seem like he read anything besides my first post in this thread, and he for whatever reason decided that I'm closed-minded and bigoted, which is entirely not the case. If you read through all of the posts in this thread, no one has mentioned anything about disliking gays; what people are more upset with is the fact that people are possibly misrepresenting themselves. I see this thread as being more about people being upset about "perps" than people being upset about gay greeks.

[lambda10]

Like I said, please send your concerns about Who's Out directly to info@lambda10.org instead of making comments about the Who's Out listing that are not going to make it better. I will believe you are truly looking out and support glb brothers and sisters if you want to be part of a solution and send your concerns. Thank you. I appreciate the energy put into responding to my post, but I would encourage and agree that the list can be a powerful tool if you all will help me identify what you believe to be "inaccurate." Thank you.

I hope to hear from you soon.

Sincerely,

Shane Windmeyer
Lambda 10 Project

[lambda10]

Please don't construe my words to mean everyone on this post or anyone on this post is homophobic. I have received complaints over the years about the "who's out" list and the complaints have come from very homophobic people who do not want this list to exist at all. I understand having read (I think) all the posts this is not the case.

So, please accept my apologies if you think I meant to say you were homophobic. I only meant to imply (in my opinion) these are the reasons why many have probs with this list and try to point out "inaccuracies." I think you will find that the list is highly accurate if you contact many of the links/people and use it as the resource it was intended to be. Nevertheless, I think the women's listing could use some help especailly, so please do send your comments. To stand by my point, I do think a few of the posts may have had some degree of homophobia.. but that is why I hate these message threads even on our site in the bboard section.. they are so hard to communicate real meaning sometimes and respond directly to one person. Anyway, please send your comments to info@lambda10.org for the Who's Out listing.

[Tom Earp]

Well, just for me, This is getting a little out of hand.

I talked to a Gay Brother From Alfred U who is working his butt of to keep his Chapter throught no damn reason of the chapters! I called him LD! I also worked through Channels to help him!

Brother Hren, Who I am sure you know has become a very good freind and Brother, that I have never met, but talk with constantly and will be going to Their 30 Founders Day Reunion!

Yes there are People on any site who Bash Gays, but when you come onto a site and bash people who are asking or stating simple things for clarifications, do not under any circumstances get you necks out of joint!

As You yourselve realize, most people do not understand what makes you feel the way you do. I only know Brother Hren is a Brother and I will do what I can for him beacuse so! Not because his is Gay or I feel sorry for him!

It Breaks down, if your an asswhole/bitch then so be it!

That is to say some person who haw to show themselves to others to prove themselvse right!

Do not hold your flame to high or the wind will blow it out!

Hell no, I care for him as a Brother and a Friend! Get It?

Do not get offensive on this site please.

We have come to know each other very well and while we all have certain ideas, we still respect each other!

Please look at other threads and we wlould appreciate any input form and Greek Org, Brother/Sister!

[Phins2left]

apologies to KD or DW for the personal umbrage taken.

I don't apologize for repeating words posted here when, on their face they run contradictory to the message which is allegedly trying to be forwarded. However nasty my words were received, understand that I was not the poster who proceeded from the judgement of "Stupid". Insofar as that is concerned, it was personal when I got here. Plus, many of the posts, no matter how much everybody "respects everybody else", this whole issue is a judgement debate over WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. It is inherently invasive into lives not directly connected to your own.

That said, and without admitting to any particular motives for my posts, may I suggest that the following two things be considered, perhaps as lessons to be learned:

1. KD correctly pointed out that I don't know her from Eve, except for what she has said here, and therefore I am not qualified to make a personal judgement about her. This is true. It is also true for those folks who set up the Lambda 10 site and those folks who post their name and information there....it's not 'stupid' (those were someone else's words, but you get the picture). MORE IMPORTANTLY was the fact that I came out of nowhere and started attacking people I didn't know based on a something I saw that I didn't like.....does this sequence of events sound a little familiar to those on this board who have lived with a gay or lesbian? Like, perhaps, the sometimes endless character attacks and innuendos they suffer? For consideration, I also offer the comment leveled at me which implies that, as a newbie to the group, I ought not pass a judgement until I've been around a while and walked in the group's shoes, so to speak. The same should be said of gay and lesbian greeks everywhere when you have the urge to question their coming out, showing pride, or doing something you think is over the top (such as a girlfriend date to formal): perhaps one should consider walking in their shoes a while before forming an opinion.

2. Although no one has explicitly posted anything about disliking gays/lesbians, read through it all again with as clear a mindset as you can and see if you don't finish with a sense that there is something unsaid in some of those posts which feels an awful lot like bigotry. I don't suggest that this is even intentional, but the purpose of getting an education is to open your mind, and opening your mind requires introspection, so go ahead and give it another thorough read and see if you mihgt not agree; finally

3. KD, I'm sure you're going to be in the top of your class. Admittedly, it didn't take much to provoke you which was a cheap shot on my part. My point required someone to fight back through a solidarity manuever, which you did aptly. Good luck with law school.




"If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; that you have but slumber'd here, while these visions did appear; and this weak and idle theme, no more yielding than a dream. Gentles, do not reprehend; if you pardon, we will mend..."

[Phins2left]

apologies to KD or DW for the personal umbrage taken.

I don't apologize for repeating words posted here when, on their face they run contradictory to the message which is allegedly trying to be forwarded. However nasty my words were received, understand that I was not the poster who proceeded from the judgement of "Stupid". Insofar as that is concerned, it was personal when I got here. Plus, many of the posts, no matter how much everybody "respects everybody else", this whole issue is a judgement debate over WHAT OTHER PEOPLE ARE DOING. It is inherently invasive into lives not directly connected to your own.

That said, and without admitting to any particular motives for my posts, may I suggest that the following two things be considered, perhaps as lessons to be learned:

1. KD correctly pointed out that I don't know her from Eve, except for what she has said here, and therefore I am not qualified to make a personal judgement about her. This is true. It is also true for those folks who set up the Lambda 10 site and those folks who post their name and information there....it's not 'stupid' (those were someone else's words, but you get the picture). MORE IMPORTANTLY was the fact that I came out of nowhere and started attacking people I didn't know based on a something I saw that I didn't like.....does this sequence of events sound a little familiar to those on this board who have lived with a gay or lesbian? Like, perhaps, the sometimes endless character attacks and innuendos they suffer? For consideration, I also offer the comment leveled at me which implies that, as a newbie to the group, I ought not pass a judgement until I've been around a while and walked in the group's shoes, so to speak. The same should be said of gay and lesbian greeks everywhere when you have the urge to question their coming out, showing pride, or doing something you think is over the top (such as a girlfriend date to formal): perhaps one should consider walking in their shoes a while before forming an opinion.

2. Although no one has explicitly posted anything about disliking gays/lesbians, read through it all again with as clear a mindset as you can and see if you don't finish with a sense that there is something unsaid in some of those posts which feels an awful lot like bigotry. I don't suggest that this is even intentional, but the purpose of getting an education is to open your mind, and opening your mind requires introspection, so go ahead and give it another thorough read and see if you mihgt not agree; finally

3. KD, I'm sure you're going to be in the top of your class. Admittedly, it didn't take much to provoke you which was a cheap shot on my part. My point required someone to fight back through a solidarity manuever, which you did aptly. Good luck with law school.




"If we shadows have offended, think but this and all is mended; that you have but slumber'd here, while these visions did appear; and this weak and idle theme, no more yielding than a dream. Gentles, do not reprehend; if you pardon, we will mend..."

[cash78mere]

do i have to register to see this list?

cause i can't figure out how to do it without filling out that form, which i certainly am not doing

[Tom Earp]

Cash, sorry sweety but not sure what your are taliking about! If you are a member of GC, you are a member!

What this discussion is about is the site that was posted about the Greek Gay Site!

I am becoming very upset about what this 1-2 person is putting on GC Site!

If you want to try to be Condosinding , Dont! It unbecomes you and what you are trying to stand for, and I and many others on this site are becoming weary of it!

It seems that your self importance with your situation is becoming underwhealming!

Now let us talk like adults! Get off your damn horse of Gayism and Be a Greek!

You have seen and read many answeres to you posts!

I will let One of My Brothers, who is Gay, Know what is on this site! He is one bad SOB!

So be nice and work with us or you have not any site to voice with other than yours!

You both make the decision, and We Will All Make the Decision!

Ball In your Court! What say You!?

[kddani]

wow, for once I understand one of Tom Earp's posts and I agree wholeheartedly!!!! And even more important, I could actually understand it!!!! :O)

Phins2left, thank you for your apology.

[DeltaSigStan]

Originally posted by DGTracy
I'm okay with greeks who are gay but I don't know if I trust some of the listings. Like there's one for Delta Sigma Phi at UC Irvine. There isn't even a chapter there, unless Delta Sig's national website just doesn't have it listed.

They went dormant in the early 90s........

They listed our former National President...........as much as most of our association doesn't like the guy I'm pretty sure someone did a fake listing.

[DGTracy]

Originally posted by DeltaSigStan


They went dormant in the early 90s........

They listed our former National President...........as much as most of our association doesn't like the guy I'm pretty sure someone did a fake listing.

Thank you for like clarifying that.

[DWAlphaGam]

Originally posted by kddani
wow, for once I understand one of Tom Earp's posts and I agree wholeheartedly!!!! And even more important, I could actually understand it!!!! :O)

Phins2left, thank you for your apology.

You beat me to it, but I also agree with Tom.

Phins2left, I would also like to thank you for your apology. I would also like to apologize if I inadvertently said anything that offended you. It was definitely not my intention, and I'm guessing that no one else intended to, either.

[sugar and spice]

Personally, I can see both sides. While no actual anti-gay declarations have been made, and everybody makes statements that claim to support them, the tone of most of the posts certainly isn't welcoming to gay Greeks, and occassionally runs the risk of being downright hostile. I think the webpage is a great thing if it helps to unite homosexual members of GLOs -- face it, it can't be an easy thing to be in the closet and in a GLO, and it might not be much easy to be OUT of the closet and in a GLO. At the same time, though, if the majority of the listings on the site are fake (and enough of the names have been called into question that it seems likely that at least some must be fake), the site isn't helping anyone much.

However, if you're not gay and Greek, or at least interested in lending support to those who are, it seems like the webpage shouldn't really be any of your business. If you're concerned about the possibility of faked names, email the webmaster of the site and explain why you think the name's not real. Hopefully he/she will remove the imposter's name -- and that'll solve a lot more than simply complaining about them in this forum will.