Death Penalty-Change your mind yet?

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by Dionysus



1 in 1,000,000? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10? Those who are punished that are guilty still exceeds those who are punished that are innocent.

[/B]

Even if it is one person out of them all, that is too many.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Dionysus

1 in 1,000,000? 1 in 1,000? 1 in 10? Those who are punished that are guilty still exceeds those who are punished that are innocent.
[/B]

Let's say 100 people perform some particular capital crime. By your logic here, you are claiming it a success if 60 of these people are properly caught and put to death, even if the other 40 crimes result in the wrong person being arrested and put to death, as put here . . . now, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense at all, does it?

[valkyrie]

Aiii, what if the one innocent person being executed is your family member? Is you?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Aiii, what if the one innocent person being executed is your family member? Is you?

Not cool. What if a convicted person kills you or a loved one, because he wasn't put to death?

The area I'm from, we have an average of one or two prisoners escaping per month. Last May FOUR escaped within one week.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Dionysus
The area I'm from, we have an average of one or two prisoners escaping per month. Last May FOUR escaped within one week.

cite?

Were they capital criminals? How many deaths resulted as a part of these escapes? Would they have been put to death already, or would they still be bogged down in appeal? Do you have any statistics for how often this happens, or was it a statistical freak event?

And most importantly . . . why the fuck do you still live there?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Dionysus


Not cool. What if a convicted person kills you or a loved one, because he wasn't put to death?

The area I'm from, we have an average of one or two prisoners escaping per month. Last May FOUR escaped within one week.

Really?

-Rudey
--I tell you what, I'll call you on this and say your full of crap until you show where you got your data from.

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by librasoul22


Also to the people who favor the death penalty. What if it was your mother/father/close relative or friend that was getting the sentence? Would you still feel the same way? BE HONEST.

It doesn't hit close to home for most of you, but if you give honest consideration to some often overlooked things, you might see this differently.

and if it were your mother or father or child that was brutally murdered would you feel the same? If you trully knew how they were killed and saw the pictures, knowing they suffered for maybe minutes/hours or days, if they were tortured to death, mutilated, strangled. If my family member was the cause of someone elses death and torture yes I would agree to their execution. I firmly believe they do not need to exist in this society. I am glad I live in Texas where the death penalty is alive and well! BTW a rapist was allowed out of jail -he then proceeded to rape and murder a child here in Austin and guess what he is getting out again-how many more does he have to rape and kill?

[Dionysus]

I spent an half an hour looking for statistics showing that the DP increases deterrance. The majority showed that it doesn't. So that means that some people are actually right about that. HOWEVER, I only took the stats w/ a grain of salt, because I found little or no interpretation and relationships between the facts. Where I looked there wasn't much reasearch on WHY the DP doesn't increase deterrence. I'm only conviced 50%, I need more than numbers. So when I bust out these anti-DP and non-deterrence statistics next week, I can answer my opponents questions to why so.

[KSig RC]

Um, what the hell do you mean, why? Why would it increase deterrence?

You're assuming that "b/c people fear for their lives!" is more valid than "b/c people don't pay attention to the consequences!", which is fallacious.

The studies show no correllation between the death penalty and lowering crime - in fact, in one study in Texas, there was a positive correllation - which implies that death is not a deterrent to crime. What further interpretation do you need?

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by aggieAXO


and if it were your mother or father or child that was brutally murdered would you feel the same? If you trully knew how they were killed and saw the pictures, knowing they suffered for maybe minutes/hours or days, if they were tortured to death, mutilated, strangled. If my family member was the cause of someone elses death and torture yes I would agree to their execution. I firmly believe they do not need to exist in this society. I am glad I live in Texas where the death penalty is alive and well! BTW a rapist was allowed out of jail -he then proceeded to rape and murder a child here in Austin and guess what he is getting out again-how many more does he have to rape and kill?

This actually has nothing to do with the death penalty. It has more to do with prison overcrowding. A MAJORITY (sorry for the number-crunchers, I don't have exact data) of the prison poulation are there for drug violations. This makes it more likely that convicted criminals will become eligible for parole. Drug laws have MANDATORY sentencing. Many violent crimes are left to the judge's discretion.

Also, if any of my family members were brutally murdered I STILL would not seek the death penalty (and I can say that with all confidence). I am a firm believer that what goes around truly does come around, and I simply refuse to endorse the murder of any individual (death penalty = state-sanctioned murder).

Dionysus, I am with KSig RC...why ask why? You should be looking at other outside factors as well...what are the recidivism rates of those who escape? Why are they allowed to escape, lol? Are they on death row when they escape?

What are good alternatives that would enforce deterrence?

And most important of all, is the death penalty supposed to be about PUNISHMENT or DETERRENCE? Or both? Because really, if it is only about punishment, that is very shortsighted, both economically and practically.

[James]

Actually how many people agree with the following?

I was talking to a State Trooper and he was saying he wasn't worried when an innocent person went to jail.

This is the way he figures it: These aren't normal law abiding people going to jail for crimes they didn't commit. These are scum bags that have probably committed other crimes that they weren't caught for . . . so if they go up for rape or whatever, they probably did stuff like that anyway . . . so if they burn oh well.

I talked to another conservative person about the same thing . . and he had the same opinion.

He also didn't think it was a bad thing to violate their normal rights . . ilegal search and seizure? Well, whats the big deal? They were guilty anyway. And also innocent people should have no trouble with being searched to clear themselves.

What do you guys think? I mean this a law enforcement officer . . .

[aggieAXO]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Um, what the hell do you mean, why? Why would it increase deterrence?

You're assuming that "b/c people fear for their lives!" is more valid than "b/c people don't pay attention to the consequences!", which is fallacious.

The studies show no correllation between the death penalty and lowering crime - in fact, in one study in Texas, there was a positive correllation - which implies that death is not a deterrent to crime. What further interpretation do you need?

It also seems that jail itself is not a deterrent to crime so should we just bag the whole idea? Jail sentencing is just a waste of time then? The news media had the statistics for the last 2 years comparing crimes in Austin and not much of a change was seen.

I personally see the death penalty as punishment if it deters someone then that is another added benefit.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by James
Actually how many people agree with the following?

I was talking to a State Trooper and he was saying he wasn't worried when an innocent person went to jail.

This is the way he figures it: These aren't normal law abiding people going to jail for crimes they didn't commit. These are scum bags that have probably committed other crimes that they weren't caught for . . . so if they go up for rape or whatever, they probably did stuff like that anyway . . . so if they burn oh well.

I talked to another conservative person about the same thing . . and he had the same opinion.

He also didn't think it was a bad thing to violate their normal rights . . ilegal search and seizure? Well, whats the big deal? They were guilty anyway. And also innocent people should have no trouble with being searched to clear themselves.

What do you guys think? I mean this a law enforcement officer . . .

I think that is the most frightening thing I have heard in a long time, and needless to say, I completely disagree. I am an innocent person, and I would have a *big* *huge* problem having myself searched for no good reason just to clear myself. I'm sure that anyone in Illinois who runs into the officer known not-so-affectionately as "The Proctologist" would agree with me.

Aside from the fact that we live in a free society where I think we should be free from being bothered by the police for no reason, what are the racial ramifications of this scheme these officers propose? Who will be the ones they're pulling over and stopping, I would guess 9 times out of 10? I'll tell you who: young black men. It's pathetic. It's true that I'm probably not a person who would be bothered by police, but if one person is searched for no reason, then I feel that I, as a citizen, am being violated as well. If we don't all stick up for each other and against this b.s., then who will?

I think these people should be fired. Sorry if I sound mad, but that REALLY offends me. The thing is, I see bogus crap like this every time. If it weren't so sad, it would be almost funny to read the crap police put in their reports to make it look like they had a good reason to stop someone when you and I both know that they didn't. It REALLY bothers me.

[Rudey]

Governor Ryan of Illinois chose not to take a gamble that could possibly make him a murderer:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/inte...orld-Reax.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/13/opinion/13MON1.html

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/nati...s-Journey.html

-Rudey
--Flawed

[valkyrie]

I think I've said this before, but my vote for Ryan was the first and only vote I have ever cast for a Republican. Last week, he made me SO glad that I did vote for him. I think he is a wonderful, brave man who did something so important, notwithstanding the fact that it is hugely unpopular with many people.