From Pref Night to Bid Day: What happens?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by tld221

On to my asterisk: how does NPC define "want"? Is it an intrapersonal "the last few days getting to know you have been amazing, let's go steady" want, or a straightforward "our quota is a number we need to fill and we want you to be a member"? Or is this respective to the scenarios I listed above? In other words, are there chapters that, when bid matching (either by hand or machine) want everyone on their first bid list? Like over the moon, "she NEEDS to be my sister" want.

I was in a "weak-recruiting chapter", so here's a perspective from that end:

Every round, there were disappointments for us: women we wanted who didn't return to our chapter. We knew we were a WRC, and that we were competing with SRCs, and that Patty Perfect PNM might not be on our list, but I have been the one (as chapter president) to break the news to an active collegian that her little sister had declined our invitation. Those hurt.

But just as we tell PNMs (and as my Rho Chi once said to me) to have an open mind and to look at the chapters left on their invite list as the only chapters on campus, each round, we'd do our best to refocus on the pool of PNMs that we DID have, and find something to love about each one.

Are there women we are over-the-moon to have, versus women we aren't? Well, they are on the bid list in an order, but in a chapter like mine (over 100 women), it's not at all like we are going to have a homogenous opinion. There were women in my chapter who were "rush crushes" for some of my sisters that I didn't feel a strong affection for, and vice-versa. Further, someone who didn't shine during FR may just not have met the right women in the chapter to really "click". But the bottom line is that I loved my chapter and my sisters, and I firmly believe that any woman who meets the requirements of membership will be an asset to the chapter in one way or another, and many in ways you just can't know during FR.

[Titchou]

Excellent!

[DubaiSis]

But what was way worse, pre-RFM is we would have the highest returns of any chapter in the middle rounds (back in my day it was 5 rounds) and then end up with a fraction of quota. The problem is we could compete, right up until preference. And that was always SOOOOOO disappointing. But that's where sidewalk talk is a killer. They liked us enough to keep us through rush, but too scared to pull the trigger at the end with a lesser known entity. With RFM, the rushees are having to take a chance with that iffy chapter. And of course, the brave ones are getting the rewards of the great chapter that they didn't appreciate during rush. And it only takes a few of those rush cycles for the girls who aren't so brave to also jump in. And before long, that "who are they again" thing is gone.

[IndianaSigKap]

Before RFM, WRC and even ARC (average recruiting chapters) were sitting ducks. My granddaughter (you call them littles, we called them daughters) was a recruitment counselor and called me in tears after bids were handed out. We had about 4 chapters on our campus who were notorious for over inviting for pref. By over inviting I mean that their quota was 30 and they would invite 300 to pref because they wanted to have full parties. Three girls in her rush group went to preference at two of the four. She was lucky to only have three, some of her colleagues had as many as 7 or 8. Snap bids were very common. We had a list of girls who came to us the round before pref but did not match and usually got anywhere from 3-10 of those women before Bid Day even began.

I wish RFM had come along about 5 years earlier. My campus would look very different. I really believe that at least two of the four chapters who left in the 90s would have survived with RFM.

[TriDeltaSallie]

I also believe that if RFM had been available in the late 80's/early 90's, the Greek system at Michigan State would look very different. Tri Delta, AGD, Phi Mu and Alpha Xi Delta all left campus within a few years of each other.

Even though I was chapter president, I honestly don't remember much about the invite lists, percentages and all that (except how crushing it was to get our bid lists). I just know that no matter how hard we worked, we were doomed. Our chapter house was also extremely uncompetitive. We were on sorority row, but had the most unappealing house by far. I don't know what the alums were thinking when they built it.

We were told over and over again by national workers that we could overcome the hindrance of the house, but I do not believe that was possible. Not when you have six other gorgeous houses on the same two blocks (and others elsewhere) and yours is nothing like the rest. Zeta was directly across the street from us and they put a lot of money into their physical structure. They did survive and now my understanding is they are doing pretty well.

I remember going to Purdue for Leadership School and seeing the huge, gorgeous brand new DDD house there and feeling absolutely sick that Tri Delta built that house for them and we could do nothing.

And then there was the decision to bring on AOPi when there were multiple chapters not making quota each fall.

And then there were the hostile tiers where people would cross the street rather than speak to you.

And then there's the university administration that really isn't supportive of the Greek system at all.

Yeah, it's really a wonder that system survives at all, to be perfectly honest.

[DubaiSis]

A lot of what you're saying sounds like Iowa in the late 80's, early 90's. My chapter is VERY old and wasn't going anywhere regardless of how small we got, but out of 15 chapters, 5 were regularly not making quota, and yet they brought on SK and AGD within 4 years of each other! What they were thinking and why AGD didn't bail before it was too late is beside me. And both of them bought/rented (whatev) crappy houses that were like single family homes compared to the mansions that the older chapters had. Not that they had a choice. The other choice would have been to tear down build.

Iowa's not quite ready for expansion yet, but I could see it in the next couple years. And hopefully SK and/or AGD will have the opportunity to make it right. But when they do, they will have to be prepared to do the tear down/build up mentioned above. Housing is expensive, as it is in all college towns, but not so much that you couldn't justify it with an expectation of years of success. A lovely house, well located that sleeps 40-50 and doesn't have the problems that old houses do could be a real draw, as long as all other things are equal of course.

[33girl]

Or, if the women in the sororities would have been a little kinder and released the women they had zero interest in, rather than stringing them along to make themselves look good, we wouldn't have needed to implement RFM in the first place. Even if they were a few short on bid day, those are the kinds of chapters that can fill 5 spots with 3 phone calls.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Or, if the women in the sororities would have been a little kinder and released the women they had zero interest in, rather than stringing them along to make themselves look good, we wouldn't have needed to implement RFM in the first place. Even if they were a few short on bid day, those are the kinds of chapters that can fill 5 spots with 3 phone calls.

But RFM isn't just about forcing chapters to release more women. It's also about better predicting return rates. Under the old system, even if a chapter followed suggested invite numbers, the suggestions weren't as good. Forecasting is very difficult, and RFM uses better methods.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

A lot of what you're saying sounds like Iowa in the late 80's, early 90's. My chapter is VERY old and wasn't going anywhere regardless of how small we got, but out of 15 chapters, 5 were regularly not making quota, and yet they brought on SK and AGD within 4 years of each other! What they were thinking and why AGD didn't bail before it was too late is beside me. And both of them bought/rented (whatev) crappy houses that were like single family homes compared to the mansions that the older chapters had. Not that they had a choice. The other choice would have been to tear down build.

Iowa's not quite ready for expansion yet, but I could see it in the next couple years. And hopefully SK and/or AGD will have the opportunity to make it right. But when they do, they will have to be prepared to do the tear down/build up mentioned above. Housing is expensive, as it is in all college towns, but not so much that you couldn't justify it with an expectation of years of success. A lovely house, well located that sleeps 40-50 and doesn't have the problems that old houses do could be a real draw, as long as all other things are equal of course.

This is also an issue at MSU. The city of East Lansing is not supportive of Greek life and trying to do ANYTHING to a house is a major ordeal. Gamma Phi Beta did build a house while I was in school, but IMHO the location was less than desirable - on a wedge with heavy traffic roads going by on both sides. We had a primo location, but didn't have the house to go with it.

[DubaiSis]

Well, if people did the right thing without making rules, we'd have no need for laws. And no Congress! Think of the utopia we could have if people just did the right thing But in the meantime, RFM is doing what was intended and wild growth and what seems to be really minimal closures seem to be a result.

[HQWest]

RFM also does not help a sick Greek system. You can get a PNM to a bid - but she doesn't have to accept.(you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink)

If tent talk and gossip are so bad, PNMs won't give it a shot, and someone isnt playing nice.

[TriDeltaSallie]

Originally Posted by HQWest

RFM also does not help a sick Greek system. You can get a PNM to a bid - but she doesn't have to accept.(you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink)

If tent talk and gossip are so bad, PNMs won't give it a shot, and someone isnt playing nice.

This was definitely part of the problem at Michigan State. One chapter going under, you can blame the chapter. Even two chapters. But four? That's probably the sign of an unhealthy Greek system. I'm just thankful that Greek gossip site that shall not be named didn't exist when I was in school. The tent talk alone was bad enough.

There were a lot of women who had very negative experiences with rush because the chapters most in demand carried many women through preference that they could not bid. There were a lot of bitter women and that hurt the Greek system as well.

I know some of the field reps and national officers who came to help us (and there were many) were really shocked and dismayed by the attitudes displayed by members of our chapter at times (and I include myself in that). I had no Greek background and the internet didn't exist. All I knew about Greek life was what I observed on my own campus and what I observed was not healthy. The idea of sororities supporting each other was totally foreign to us.

[KitKat58]

For the PNM, how much time usually passes between receiving the next round of invites and the start of the events?

Are Pref and Bid usually on the same day?

Is it possible to receive a Pref invite to only one sorority if a PNM maximizes their options?

[HQWest]

Originally Posted by KitKat58

For the PNM, how much time usually passes between receiving the next round of invites and the start of the events?

Most places 30-40 minutes. You rank your preferences that afternoon, you get your invite list the next morning sometimes at breakfast.

Originally Posted by KitKat58

Are Pref and Bid usually on the same day?

No this is unusual. Larger schools need more time to rank the PNMs and to make sure as many PNMs as possible are matched with a bid. Also, (without going into MS) some chapters are done with ranking soon after prefs are over, some the whole chapter spends more time on ranking their favorites.

Originally Posted by KitKat58

Is it possible to receive a Pref invite to only one sorority if a PNM maximizes their options?

It can and does happen.

[DubaiSis]

Originally Posted by HQWest

No this is unusual. Larger schools need more time to rank the PNMs and to make sure as many PNMs as possible are matched with a bid.

I believe UCLA has preference in the morning and bid night later that day, but they're the only one I'm aware of that does it that way. I like the theory of it but the reality sounds like an exercise in chaos for the sororities. There is a LOT to do in the (normally 18 hours or so) time between pref parties ending and bid day activities starting. Cutting that down to 6 hours or so seems ludicrous. But somehow they make it happen! It really is the magic behind the doors. The first time you see rush happen from the other side of the door, it's a miracle that you thought everything was so smooth and easy for the always-refreshed looking sorority women you wanted to emulate.