White flight? Suburbs lose young whites to cities

[agzg]

Gentrified neighborhoods aren't necessarily free of crime, either. There's a low level of gang activity here as well as other crime-related activity which seems to be all over Chicago... muggings, beatings, etc. It's just that when it's a violent crime and it happens here (and is reported), it gets a lot more news coverage than if the same thing were to happen in other areas.

What's frustrating to me is that there seem to be cops ALL over this neighborhood, but then they're talking about bringing the national guard into the south side because "crime is out of control there." Well... maybe if you pulled back your forces and drove by my house maybe once every two hours instead of twice an hour you'd be able to have a more robust police force in those areas.

[Kevin]

We were in this article though...

http://www.walletpop.com/blog/2010/0...red-recession/

And no one's hopping that fence. I believe it's 12 feet high.

Our assessments are no big deal and they're optional, so that's not really an issue. The majority of our budget comes from grants from the city. And as far as my neighbors being as well off as me, I don't really know. So long as they keep their yards up, I don't really care either.

As far as gentrification goes, even in the circumstances where it is not win/win, being poor sucks and it should suck. That you've let your neighborhood slide to a point where external forces are needed to essentially wipe the place out and start over means that you have failed. If that happens in my neighborhood someday, then I failed at being a good steward for my neighborhood and doing what I could to protect my property value.

The problem will never be solved because the problem of blight, left unchecked tends to spread. Best to nip it in the bud if possible and salvage a bad situation, or if not possible, to at least contain all the blight in one area -- in OKC, there are certain neighborhoods you just don't go to at night... or if you do go, you go armed (conceal and carry is permissible here and open carry is about to be).

The fix is cultural. I agree you can't throw money at the problem. If the police won't clean up your neighborhood, you have to take it upon yourself to do something. There may be consequences for that, it's all a cost-benefit analysis, and it may be the case that eventually you're resigned to the fact that the neighborhood will slip into blight.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If the police won't clean up your neighborhood, you have to take it upon yourself to do something. There may be consequences for that, it's all a cost-benefit analysis, and it may be the case that eventually you're resigned to the fact that the neighborhood will slip into blight.

UGGGGG this is the same old school choice "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" crap. If people are paying taxes, why in the fuck should they lay down and put up with not receiving services (be it police presence, updated schools etc). The "walk away if you can and just leave it for the poor slobs who can't afford to do so" is a really good way to teach your children to be irresponsible brats who care about very little but themselves and their own pleasure.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

UGGGGG this is the same old school choice "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" crap. If people are paying taxes, why in the fuck should they lay down and put up with not receiving services (be it police presence, updated schools etc). The "walk away if you can and just leave it for the poor slobs who can't afford to do so" is a really good way to teach your children to be irresponsible brats who care about very little but themselves and their own pleasure.

People in blighted communities, on the whole don't really pay taxes. They get more than they pay in. And since there's generally no retail, mostly due to inventory shrinkage and safety issues in blighted communities, unless the city has a big footprint (which is not typical of older cities), then residents generally have to go out to the suburbs to go to Sam's, Wal-Mart or what have you.

Further, property taxes aren't going to be remotely comparable to the suburbs either due to depressed property values.

Expecting the same level of services in high crime, blighted communities is just absurd. And even in the suburbs, cooperation and interaction between public safety officials and the community is both common and expected. At least it is here.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

At least it is here.

Nice finish!
There ya go!! Speak from what you know!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

If the police won't clean up your neighborhood, you have to take it upon yourself to do something. There may be consequences for that, it's all a cost-benefit analysis, and it may be the case that eventually you're resigned to the fact that the neighborhood will slip into blight.

Originally Posted by Kevin

People in blighted communities, on the whole don't really pay taxes.

I wasn't talking about blighted communities, nor were you. There's a hell of a big difference between "blight" and as someone said, a community w/ a demographic that isn't as desirable to retailers. Those are the communities that the cops and the city services in general tend to blow off...allowing them to slip into full ass blight...and that's reprehensible.

[DaemonSeid]

Wow...some of what you just said are the first smart things that you said all thread. Kudos.

Now...point one.

Not all areas can get grants from cities to keep their areas up. And I am willing to bet that in order to do so, you probably still have to put something towards it to continue to get grants. You are so lucky to do so.

Point number 2.

You are just one person. The people that live in your area are just one group. Times change and people change but of course debating this point we are going into a circle.

Point number 3.

You admitted that gentrification and blight is not fixable. Good to see that you are finally realizing this. Now you stated that to nip it in the bud you have to contain it. The next problem that your city has to solve is making it livable so that way YOU CAN walk the streets at night. Containment, like fencing off your homes, is a temporary solution at best.

Point number 4.

You are still missing the point on this however. As stated repeatedly, what is doable in your area is not something easily doable in many areas and it goes along socio-economic lines, which was pointed out, as to why this isn't always a clear cut 'simple' solution.

You also need to figure into the fact that many businesses who want to gentrify an area actually COUNT on high crime stats so that way it's easier to acquire property they are looking to change.

As far as 'hopping' the fence I was figuratively speaking...not literally.

@33girl, yeah you just reminded me about a law Virgina recently passed where certain areas can deny public services if they suspect that residents are illegals.

[Kevin]

[[ [ Blighted communities ] Communities undesirable to retailers ]]

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

[[ [ Blighted communities ] Communities undesirable to retailers ]]

I don't understand those funny doodads. What are you trying to say?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't understand those funny doodads. What are you trying to say?

It's an attempt at a Venn diagram.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

It's an attempt at a Venn diagram.

Don't invoke my dead Logics teacher in this thread. LOL LOL LOL

[DaemonSeid]

and that train is pulling in.....soon.

[DaemonSeid]

You are sure full of jokes...for starters.

[dreamseeker]

*cackle*

[Low C Sharp]

If you happen to live along the right bus line, it's great.

"Happen to live" there? Nobody happens to live anywhere unless they inherit a house. They make choices that carry trade-offs. If public transportation is important enough to you, you choose housing close to it. It's not bad luck that you don't have a bus line close by. It's your choice.
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