The first sorority to demand equal rights

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Race War 2008:
Panhellenic vs Pan-Hellenic - The Hyphen Drawn in the Sand

Only if they insist. I'm actually baffled at the responses.

They act like we're some white people who are chastising the majority of blacks for not having wealthy great grandparents. Or that we're white people chastising blacks for not going to white schools during the de facto segregation era. Is what we're asking so unrealistic and unreasonable?

[33girl]

If this thread would have had the more accurate title "the first sorority to tell school administrators they were jagoffs" we would have had a lot less confusion.

Plus, if you want to get technical, the group of women were demanding equal rights before Chi Omega or MLC ever got involved. The only reason they became a chapter, apparently, was to piss the administration off. You could argue that MLC could have supported them just as much without their being Greek affiliated.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

While stronger activism got women the right to vote, it did not automatically give us the respect of men as peers. Education, however, has proven to men that women are equal to them academically. NPC organizations were founded by women bent on getting an education. Many were in teacher's colleges because this was the only "appropriate" profession for women at the time. Later founders were the first to break into the male only facilities of higher education. They founded our groups to empower the women looking for equality to stand up for themselves against the all male faculty who often were not receptive to their appearance on the scene. Just because as groups we worked at the level of the individual woman does not mean that we were not activists in the equality movement. Marching and signing up for initiatives doesn't do the enitre job and you know it. There are many people in the women's rights and civil rights movements that worked for equality at home on the local level without marching in washington (for civil rights) or boycotting the White House (for women's rights.)

(I missed this part of your post completely)

This is definitely worth discussing and thank YOU for highlighting this. Breaking the male hold on education was definitely important and that's different than saying "we thought education was important."

Marching and signing doesn't do the whole job but someone has to do it. Usually it's a result of multitasking and working on national and local initiatives as I said earlier.

So was your documented agenda that of the individual woman during these social movements? I'm not talking about opinion, I'm asking for what you all did as a whole. An interesting thing about social movements is that there is often a division of labor. But NPC sororities focused on what they saw as important. Focusing on educating the individual women and challenging faculty and administration on college campuses. I guess NPC organizations weren't involved at the organizational-level beyond that emphasis on the individual woman. Is that correct based on you all's records? If that's what you all are going on the record as claiming, I respect that.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You all are dismissing yourselves. I asked a question and never got an answer. If NPC women were involved at a macro level, just share the dern info. I'd think you all would be proud to do so instead of making excuses.



And I stand by my quote 100%. You all made it about the NPC as a whole because you feel that it applies to the NPC as a whole. Simple as that.

An NPHC sorority who had a thread in which they boasted on having the first tea on a college campus during times of great social inequalities and turmoil would get the same "but what else have you REALLY done" questions from us. If they couldn't answer for their sorority, they could at least remind us of what OTHER NPHC sororities did during those times. But the NPC women in this thread did not even do that.

I won't even get into the history behind the women's suffrage movement. Suffice it to say that the women's suffrage movement (and the women's liberation movement) far more impacted white middle class women than it did poor white women and racial and ethnic minority women. So how is that possible if a substantial percentage of college enrolled and college educated women who were also in sororities were not actually in the struggle on a macro level besides going to school? History lesson, anyone?

i'm being WAY presumptious here, but can we chalk this debate up to different priorities between NPC and NPHC? I'm sure particular members of NPC orgs had made contributions to the women's movement, as members of the NPHC did. It could be a difference of how well it was documented, the time difference (as DSTCHAOS mentioned, late 1800s vs early 1900s, were talking a difference of 20-30 years?) and what each group of women defined as what was important in the fight for "equal rights," from ironing after-hours (im not sure what that means exactly) to marching in the women's suffrage march in 1920 (which, as its noted that had SGRho existed then, my founders most likely would've been alongside DST).

im talking out of thin air here, but maybe this is borderline apples-oranges of an argument?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by barbino

Pi Beta Phi had a famous early feminist, Carrie Chapman Catt, who founded the League of Women's Voters. I know that she was quite well known at the University of Iowa; I believe that there is a building named after her. I did a paper on her a few years ago, I should remember more because it impressed my fem theory prof. I was just excited to know that there was a Pi Phi involved in the movement.

Thanks for the info! I wish I had read page 3 earlier.

I love Pi Beta Phi. Was Catt able to influence Pi Phi's initiatives to incorporate some League of Women Voters stuff?

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I've brought her up before and I'll bring her up again, Emily Helen Butterfield, an Alpha Gamma Delta Founder, was all about breaking down boundaries. She was just a super cool lady. Excerpts from wikipedia (I know there are other sources, this one's quickest): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Helen_Butterfield

Emily Helen Butterfield (b. 1884, Algonac, Michigan - d. March 22, 1958, Neebish Island) was a pioneer in the Michiganwomen's movement.

Butterfield had a big impact on her fraternity and Greek life, as noted in the 2004 Alpha Gamma Delta Centennial Keynote Address:
"In the United States in 1900, three-quarters of the states forbade married women to own property in their name. In 1909, the members of Alpha Gamma Delta overlooked the statistic and planned ahead by starting a house fund in hopes of purchasing their own home. In 1928, they challenged the societal constraints once again by not only purchasingbut building the first house — and we all know the name of the architect — Emily Helen Butterfield."[4]

Cool beans. AGD started a house fund and that rocks!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

im talking out of thin air here, but maybe this is borderline apples-oranges of an argument?

I dunno.

The movement existed and there were women involved. Fact. I didn't know that the NPC sororities got together and as whole decided to focus on the individual woman. Learn something new everyday. Cool.

As far as documentation. People often find the info that they want to find. I find it hard to believe that none of the sororities would have that information available to anyone.

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Delta Founders marched in the 1913 Women's Suffrage March in D.C. (during a time where there were huge racial inequalities to compound the huge gender inequalities).

I never knew that and I think that's truly amazing. I like that it was an organization-wide cause.

For the record, I think the title of this thread is confusing and misleading.

[SWTXBelle]

oldu - I really enjoy your research. I do hate that sometimes an ill-conceived title gets in the way. May I humbly suggest that instead of the more general titles you have used in the past, you make your titles very specific, thus avoiding the hurt feelings sometimes engendered by groups feeling slighted or ignored?

As to the whole NPC/NPHC thing - we need to understand that the groups were largely products of their times. Thus the different focus in terms of original purpose, for example. But both groups had hundreds of active, educated women who made a difference in their groups, colleges, communities and country. We need to celebrate those noble women, and worry less about who did what when and more about the overall progress brought about the individual and group efforts of the wonderful members of BOTH of our groups.

[laylo]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I agree with you in theory, but this thread had gotten a little dismissive of the NPC.
This quote in particular was offensive, "On an organizational level, it isn't enough to just exist. It isn't even enough to just be able to boast that one of your chapters was able to get equal ironing and smoking rights on campus."

While stronger activism got women the right to vote, it did not automatically give us the respect of men as peers. Education, however, has proven to men that women are equal to them academically. NPC organizations were founded by women bent on getting an education. Many were in teacher's colleges because this was the only "appropriate" profession for women at the time. Later founders were the first to break into the male only facilities of higher education. They founded our groups to empower the women looking for equality to stand up for themselves against the all male faculty who often were not receptive to their appearance on the scene. Just because as groups we worked at the level of the individual woman does not mean that we were not activists in the equality movement. Marching and signing up for initiatives doesn't do the enitre job and you know it. There are many people in the women's rights and civil rights movements that worked for equality at home on the local level without marching in washington (for civil rights) or boycotting the White House (for women's rights.)

Yes, I do know it, which is why I never claimed that it was. In fact I stated that all of the work you are talking about was critical. I'm simply saying that NPHC women did everything you are talking about as well, not instead.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

But both groups had hundreds of active, educated women who made a difference in their groups, colleges, communities and country.

That's what we were trying to get to. It's like some complex riddle apparently.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

We need to celebrate those noble women, and worry less about who did what when and more about the overall progress brought about the individual and group efforts of the wonderful members of BOTH of our groups.

We can multitask.

Why's it interesting to discuss Mrs. Collins but suddenly not interesting to discuss who did what when on a much grander scale? If folks don't know the info, just say that. A couple of NPC women in this thread have shared some other accomplishments that spanned beyond the college campus and I love reading info like that.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

I never knew that and I think that's truly amazing. I like that it was an organization-wide cause.

For the record, I think the title of this thread is confusing and misleading.

Is the answer to the question that I asked you "no?"

[ThetaDancer]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Is the answer to the question that I asked you "no?"

What question did you ask me?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ThetaDancer

What question did you ask me?

My fault. It was another Theta. But you can answer because it's your sorority. You edited my question out of that post you quoted.

[ThetaDancer]

Oh ok I found it! Sorry I got distracted because I was seriously interested in the fact that DST made it an organization-wide cause.

And the answer to your question is "no" Inspired by this thread, I looked in my copy of "Bound By a Mighty Vow" and learned that Kappa Alpha Theta never took an official position on suffrage. To be honest, it was actually a divisive issue for our sorority because there were women who were extremely passionate about women's right to vote, while there were also women who thought that it was "unwomanly" to protest, speak out, etc. Theta didn't want to alienate members...so they never took an official position.

I think Thetas have been pioneers for women in so many ways, but I was a bit disappointed and surprised to find out that we didn't officially support women's right to vote. I sincerely have a great deal of respect and admiration for your organization for making it such an important cause...that took a great deal of courage.

ETA: It was honestly sort of hard for me to come to terms with the fact that Theta resisted taking a stance because it might "look bad" because...I love and respect Kappa Alpha Theta so much, but I also love voting, and it's hard for me to fully grasp that they wouldn't stand up for women's rights. I know it's a product of the times, but it's really difficult for me to imagine that women would be so concerned with image and with being proper that they would not want to VOTE.

[sigmadiva]

I think that if oldu would expand his scope of sororities beyond Chi Omega, then yes, his threads would evolve with a different tone. No disrespect to Chi O.

Since his research focuses on greek life, then he either should include all GLOs - NPHC, NPC, IFC, NIC, MCGLO, NAFLO, and locals (sorry if I forgot one), OR he should do as others have suggested and specifically state which group / council he is referring to in the title. I mean, some of his titles seem open-ended, so people will infer different things from them.

And just to state, I don't think my NPHC SisterGreeks have hurt feelings from what oldu posts. I don't. I just think they want to get him and others to realize that there is more out there with respect to greek life than just one or two groups. I would think that if oldu's research is truly exhaustive, then he would easily see that.