Old-School Greek terms wrong?

[TSteven]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
Why complain when the change is already in progress and inevitable??

Unlike the NPC sororities, I don't see the NIC (IFC fraternities) moving toward a standardization of terms anytime soon. "Pledge" and "Rush" will most likely continue to be used by some NIC/IFC fraternities. On the inter/national level and on the chapter level.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
As a somewhat newer member to the Greek system (initiated Spring 2005) I don't see why it matters to make such a big deal out of the language of it all. For me, I've been using the politically corrent language because that's what I've been exposed to and I think that eventaully it will just be second nature to everyone active in the Greek system. Brothers/Sisters that remember the old ways of labeling things will be graduating and going alum and it won't matter anymore because people like me will be the older members.

Why complain when the change is already in progress and inevitable??

It probably doesn't matter as much to you because you are, as you say, a newer member. You weren't brought up in your GLO using the traditional terminology, so therefore it doesn't mean much to you. I can understand that.

However, the traditional Greek terminology means something to older Greeks like me whose scrapbooks are filled with the old words like "Pledge" and "Rush" and who have very fond memories of doing "pledge" activities that are now not allowed due to the PC climate. (see my earlier posts for examples) It bothers me to know that my younger sisters are not able to participate in the same fun, bonding things that I did.

I realize that the change is in progress. However, why should I and others keep quiet if we disagree with something? I'm still an active part of my sorority, and my opinion -- be it in the minority or the majority -- should count for something.

Please know that I'm not trying to be argumentative -- I just strongly feel that some of our unique Greek traditions have been cast aside too quickly in the rush to be politically correct. Perhaps I would feel differently if I pledged last year. Perhaps you would feel differently if you pledged when I did.

[MSKKG]

in the rush to be politically correct.

I'm sure you meant "in the recruitment to be politically correct."

[KDLadyZK]

DZ--
I understand where you're coming from. And I don't think that there is anything wrong with still using the old terminology, but for the sake of formal occasions I don't see why people don't just use the terms that make the "in charge" feel comfortable. They changed the terminology because of some of the negative stereotypes that surround the Greek Community. It goes under the same understanding that while writing a paper for my elementary education classes I use the word "children" when I may otherwise refer to them in regular speech as "kids". People change their choice of words to fit all situations all the time. Are you going to talk the same way to your Grandmother or Pastor as you do your best friend? I would hope not. I've read a lot of your posts, but I must have missed some of the ones refering to events that are not permissible now, could you give me an example? I would love to know more about the events are now "banned".

I say use any language you want just be mindful of those around you.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
DZ--
I understand where you're coming from. And I don't think that there is anything wrong with still using the old terminology, but for the sake of formal occasions I don't see why people don't just use the terms that make the "in charge" feel comfortable. They changed the terminology because of some of the negative stereotypes that surround the Greek Community. It goes under the same understanding that while writing a paper for my elementary education classes I use the word "children" when I may otherwise refer to them in regular speech as "kids". People change their choice of words to fit all situations all the time. Are you going to talk the same way to your Grandmother or Pastor as you do your best friend? I would hope not. I've read a lot of your posts, but I must have missed some of the ones refering to events that are not permissible now, could you give me an example? I would love to know more about the events are now "banned".

I say use any language you want just be mindful of those around you.

KDLadyZK -- I hear you, and I do agree that, to keep the peace, the new terms can be used during formal occasions. However, I'll probably continue to voice my opinions privately to sisters who, hopefully, will keep my thoughts in mind before voting on any other changes. I like to think of myself as the "squeaky wheel" in this case.

Below are some of the examples of activities that I posted about earlier... Please let me know what you think. I'm interested to hear what a younger Greek thinks about them and if they would still be considered fun by collegians' standards today.

When we had our Big/Lil Sis revealing, I found out who my Big Sis was by dressing up in a costume that she made for me, complete with a little hat that she had decorated. I followed a trail of her clues all over the park that we'd rented for our pledge retreat until I finally found my way into a big cabin where all the older sisters were waiting. I found my big sister by looking for someone dressed like my opposite, but with the same hat -- in this case, I was Pepper and she was Salt. It was so much fun! Now, scavenger hunts are considered "hazing" because pledges participate in the hunt but not the sisters. In the PC world, if the whole chapter isn't doing it, then it must be "hazing."

Also during my pledge period, we were each given a paper turtle. We decorated the front of our turtles however we liked, and on the backs we had to collect signatures from all of the older sisters by visiting them and answering a DZ-related history question. This served two purposes: 1) it gave us the opportunity to spend individual time with the active sisters and get to know them better and 2) it helped us prepare for our pledge test that had to be passed in order to be initiated. I still have that turtle in my pledge scrapbook, and it brings back great memories every time I see it. However, our chapter isn't allowed to do this activity anymore because it's considered "hazing."

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by MSKKG
I'm sure you meant "in the recruitment to be politically correct."

LOL -- I thought of the same thing as I was typing the word "rush."

[MSKKG]

KDLadyZK, I don't mean to butt in, but I can tell you a couple of events from 1976 that my pledge class "had" to do that are forbidden now:

1. We had to memorize 3 things about each active (from a list provided to us), go visit with them, tell them what we learned (if they asked--they hardly did), and wait for them to offer to sign a wooden key (the key is one of our symbols). Funny thing, they learned about us too just by our visiting them. What a wonderful keepsake!

2. We had to dress up to find our big sisters in whatever costume they provided. Then we had to follow the clues all around campus until we found them. This was so fun!

Granted, we had to be pledges for a whole semester AND make our grades before we could be initiated. I'm not saying how we did it back then was better or worse, but I enjoyed every minute of my pledgeship. For the record, I do try to use the new terminology, but I revert to the old sometimes.

[33girl]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
DZ--
I understand where you're coming from. And I don't think that there is anything wrong with still using the old terminology, but for the sake of formal occasions I don't see why people don't just use the terms that make the "in charge" feel comfortable.

Kids vs. children is not the same thing that we are discussing - that's a matter of "proper" vs "slang" terminology. It's like saying "isn't" vs "ain't."

The problem that I and many others have with the new terms is that they really don't change anything. "New members" still get hazed in some chapters. People are still cut hastily at "recruitment." It's just trying to pretty something up to make it seem like everything in Greek life is roses and daisies and we've corrected anything that's wrong. New terms aren't going to change anyone's view of Greek life. Actions ARE.

We've gone so overboard saying everything is hazing, that I think it has the opposite effect - chapters that have been doing everything right are all of a sudden told they're hazing and so they say "well hell, if we're going to get in trouble for using string to find our bigs, we might as well throw in some chugging while we're at it." And the chapters that DID haze heavily - well, they just didn't pay any attention at all.

If you want to go through your life changing things you believe in and that mean something to you to give other people a false impression, fine. I personally think it's hypocrisy at its height.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by MSKKG
Granted, we had to be pledges for a whole semester AND make our grades before we could be initiated. I'm not saying how we did it back then was better or worse, but I enjoyed every minute of my pledgeship. For the record, I do try to use the new terminology, but I revert to the old sometimes.

Thanks for the reminder, MSKKG... I'd forgotten about those things! We had a longer pledge period and had to make our grades also. We also had to pass our pledge exam before we could be initiated. I think the grade had to be a 90 or higher.

[KDLadyZK]

Originally posted by dzrose93

When we had our Big/Lil Sis revealing, I found out who my Big Sis was by dressing up in a costume that she made for me, complete with a little hat that she had decorated. I followed a trail of her clues all over the park that we'd rented for our pledge retreat until I finally found my way into a big cabin where all the older sisters were waiting. I found my big sister by looking for someone dressed like my opposite, but with the same hat -- in this case, I was Pepper and she was Salt. It was so much fun! Now, scavenger hunts are considered "hazing" because pledges participate in the hunt but not the sisters. In the PC world, if the whole chapter isn't doing it, then it must be "hazing."

Also during my pledge period, we were each given a paper turtle. We decorated the front of our turtles however we liked, and on the backs we had to collect signatures from all of the older sisters by visiting them and answering a DZ-related history question. This served two purposes: 1) it gave us the opportunity to spend individual time with the active sisters and get to know them better and 2) it helped us prepare for our pledge test that had to be passed in order to be initiated. I still have that turtle in my pledge scrapbook, and it brings back great memories every time I see it. However, our chapter isn't allowed to do this activity anymore because it's considered "hazing." [/B]

Those do still sound fun and we have actually adapted some similar activities. For my Big Sis reveal we were each given a pair of cute novelty socks to put on. Then the Big Sises were covered at the door so that we could only see their socks and we had to guess who it was. And to get my Lil Sis she had to dig through a bucket of candle I left for her for a clue and part of the costume I was dressed up in. So, there are still fun things that we're "allowed" to do and I do agree that neither of the activities that you stated sounded like hazing to me. I think that the history questions could be adapted somehow so that it could still be done within the "no hazing guidelines". I definately think that they've made the hazing rules so broad and general that many innocent activities are included in the hazing category. Unfortunately, in an effort to keep people safe it's just come to that.

When my mom was going through rush she was blind folded and driven around so that she wouldn't know where the ritual event was held. She said that nothing bad happened, but today that would definately not be allowed because of all of the hazing rules...

[KDLadyZK]

We also had to pass an exam with only missing 2 questions. We were required to go to 2 chapter meetings, weekly new member meetings, study tables, Panhell meetings, and a volunteer activity that other memeber are required to go to. So really there are still requirements of being a new member they're just not called a pledgeship. I don't believe that the "anti-hazing" has caused chapters to let members in that aren't up to the standards of the chapter. I think that it can still be fun today even though a few things have changed. I'm not say that this way is better or worse it's just different and it's the way things are and girls are still having a good time joining or there wouldn't be anyone joining.

[dzrose93]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
We also had to pass an exam with only missing 2 questions. We were required to go to 2 chapter meetings, weekly new member meetings, study tables, Panhell meetings, and a volunteer activity that other memeber are required to go to. So really there are still requirements of being a new member they're just not called a pledgeship.

I'm glad to hear that some of the older regulations are still in place. We had study nights, weekly pledge meetings, Panhellenic meetings, etc., too. We weren't allowed to attend chapter meetings, however, since we weren't initiated members. I liked it that way, and wish it were still the case. Not being able to attend the meetings made us want to be full-fledged sisters even more. It really created a feeling of excited anticipation for us... We couldn't wait until our own initiation so that we could find out what we'd been missing.

BTW - I love your sock and candy stories-- both are very cute ways to do a Big Sis revealing! Were y'all allowed to go on a weekend retreat for your revealing?

[KDLadyZK]

Originally posted by 33girl
Kids vs. children is not the same thing that we are discussing - that's a matter of "proper" vs "slang" terminology. It's like saying "isn't" vs "ain't."

If you want to go through your life changing things you believe in and that mean something to you to give other people a false impression, fine. I personally think it's hypocrisy at its height.

In some instances it is the same thing because if you think about it whether you like it or not the terminology has changed and "new member" vs "pledge" is now "proper" vs. "slang". Okay, some chapters haven't changed their hazing, but that has to be dealt with by the school, national chapter, and those involved in the chapter. Many of us DON'T haze and we're fine with the change of wording. I understand that eveyone has a right to their own opinion so if you want to think that it's a horrible disservice to the whole greek community for changing "rush" to "recruitment" then that's fine.

And as far as "changing things I believe in and that mean something to me to give other people a false impression", I'm NOT! Being respectful of other people and their feelings about certain language is not being a hypocrit or changing my beliefs. Using proper language in formal situations is being respectful. You many not agree with what authorities have deemed as proper language, but that doesn't mean that you should disrespect their decision. And as far as my beliefs go if you would have read all of what I had to say you would know that persoanlly I have no issues with the current language being used (PNM, recruitment, ect.) yet I do understand some of the arguments that have been presented.

[33girl]

Originally posted by KDLadyZK
In some instances it is the same thing because if you think about it whether you like it or not the terminology has changed and "new member" vs "pledge" is now "proper" vs. "slang". Okay, some chapters haven't changed their hazing, but that has to be dealt with by the school, national chapter, and those involved in the chapter. Many of us DON'T haze and we're fine with the change of wording. I understand that eveyone has a right to their own opinion so if you want to think that it's a horrible disservice to the whole greek community for changing "rush" to "recruitment" then that's fine.

It is, if you don't change the procedure.

If you have 1000 women going to 20 minute parties and then are cutting half of them....you're not participating in recruitment.

Recruitment is looking at who and what you want for your sorority and actively trying to get those women to join. Taking whoever decides to go to a series of parties is not recruitment.

And pledge is not and never has been a slang term.

[KDLadyZK]

Originally posted by dzrose93
I'm glad to hear that some of the older regulations are still in place. We had study nights, weekly pledge meetings, Panhellenic meetings, etc., too. We weren't allowed to attend chapter meetings, however, since we weren't initiated members. I liked it that way, and wish it were still the case. Not being able to attend the meetings made us want to be full-fledged sisters even more. It really created a feeling of excited anticipation for us... We couldn't wait until our own initiation so that we could find out what we'd been missing.

BTW - I love your sock and candy stories-- both are very cute ways to do a Big Sis revealing! Were y'all allowed to go on a weekend retreat for your revealing?

As far as chapter meetings go the new members are led out during any part of the meeting that is pertaining to ritual. So, really there still was the anticipation of wanting to know what the whole thing was about. Also, they aren't allowed to get all of the group emails that we send out daily (we receive around 10-15 emails per day from chapter members with business pertaining to the chapter). They have their own email account where the New Member Educator screens emails and sends only information that she sees as important for the girls. Obviously, if we're sending out info to plan for their events we don't want them to know ahead of time!

Our Big Sis reveal was done during a new member meeting (the new girls weren't told ahead of time). Any chapter member could go if they wanted. Afterward, your whole greek family (big, lil, grand big, ect.) usually goes out to eat.