FYI: The TRUTH about Kwanzaa

[Intense1920]

Originally posted by Rudey
So you're unable to formulate a response that makese sense? OK stud.

-Rudey

LOL. Think what you want because it makes no difference.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
So you're unable to formulate a response that makese sense? OK stud.

-Rudey

No she saying it makes no sense repeating the same damn thing over and over again. It's clear that you just want to argue. but I haven't heard a "response" from you that makes sense.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
this is not a holiday/celebration that is practiced in Africa.

Correct and it was never founded or marketed as such. Kwanzaa is intended to be a Black/African American celebration of the fruits of harvest and African roots. It is acknowledgement of African ancestry without ignoring the rich intellectual and cultural traditions of Black America. A traditional African holiday (I don't know of any) does not have the same effect.

I do not celebrate Kwanzaa and I do not know anyone who does beyond their organizations mentioning Kwanzaa during more general holiday celebrations. I do appreciate the principles of Kwanzaa and believe that these principles can be found and honored in every day life.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Intense1920
LOL. Think what you want because it makes no difference.

My thoughts are on point.

By the way "Think what you want because it makes no difference" LOL LOL LMAO LMFAO!!! HARDY HAR HAR HAR!

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
No she saying it makes no sense repeating the same damn thing over and over again. It's clear that you just want to argue. but I haven't heard a "response" from you that makes sense.

Again, tell me what I have an opinion on and what that opinion is.

-Rudey

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
Again, tell me what I have an opinion on and what that opinion is.

-Rudey

In respect to the article

Tip-toes and damn close are not racist.

YOUR OPINION. Not a fact.

I don't know anyone that celebrates Kwanzaa (blacks even) and I have never even heard any references in pop-culture (tv, books, papers, etc.) to non-black people celebrating it.

Opinion that NO non-black people celebrating Kwanzaa because you didn't haven't heard nor seen it.

Even if you're try that (that's not an opinion) defense, it's still short-sighted because it's clear that YOU DON'T KNOW because it's impossible for you to know everybody in this country.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Rudey
The majority of African-Americans celebrate Kwanzaa?

No.

Many African Americans know about Kwanzaa but can not tell you its principles. Kwanzaa was a more salient celebration when it was founded during the 60s. While racism and discrimination still exist, the 60s marked the Civil Rights Movement and more overt acts. There was even more need for minority groups to have a sense of unity and identity beyond what unwelcoming AmeriKKKa had to offer.

There are all sorts of celebrations that I have never heard of. That doesn't give me the right to question their authenticity or whether people should celebrate them. Kwanzaa is most often mentioned when people are trying to appear all-inclusive. In this country there are only a few celebrations around this time of the year that a majority or numerically recognizable subset of the population celebrate: Christmas, Hanukkah, Kwanzaa, and I believe Ramadan is over before the Thanksgiving-Christmas time of the year.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by DSTCHAOS
Correct and it was never founded or marketed as such. Kwanzaa is intended to be a Black/African American celebration of the fruits of harvest and African roots. It is acknowledgement of African ancestry without ignoring the rich intellectual and cultural traditions of Black America. A traditional African holiday (I don't know of any) does not have the same effect.

I do not celebrate Kwanzaa and I do not know anyone who does beyond their organizations mentioning Kwanzaa during more general holiday celebrations. I do appreciate the principles of Kwanzaa and believe that these principles can be found and honored in every day life.

Thank you, Chaos, that is a very well considered answer to what I believe was a very respectful original question on the part of Lady Pi Phi.

At this point, though, I'm not even you were responding to her.

Anyway, thanks for the post.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
In respect to the article



YOUR OPINION. Not a fact.




Opinion that NO non-black people celebrating Kwanzaa because you didn't haven't heard nor seen it.

Even if you're try that (that's not an opinion) defense, it's still short-sighted because it's clear that YOU DON'T KNOW because it's impossible for you to know everybody in this country.

In respect the the article? You're losing me but perhaps a more detailed explanation would work.

No "tip toe" and "close to" are not the same thing as "being". That's not an opinion. If it's racist, say racist. Don't say it's close to it. If I came close to winning and didn't win, then I didn't win.

And if you read the last quote, it said I didn't know anybody that celebrated it. That is the truth. It is not an opinion. It is a pure fact. I don't know anybody that celebrates it. Maybe you do. What don't you get here? You're making the ASSumption that I said no blacks ever celebrate Kwanzaa.

I expect an apology now Shortfuse.

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
How is this racist?

And in every post to Hoosier you say he just revealed that he is racist. If you say he is racist, how is he just revealing it each time?

Unless you actually can show he is racist, you are purely making light of that word and all that it entails.

-Rudey

First off you and I are operating on a different definition and understanding of the term “racist” or “racism”. For me, and most Canadians, racism doesn’t have to be tied into any power structure or relationship… an individual can be racist if they exhibit/display bigotry, racial prejudice, racial stereotypes, even name calling – the definition of a racist is a little more broad up here as you can see. So in effect, to me (and again most Canadians) the term bigot and racist can be used interchangeably, with the same meaning.

Link to “definition” from the federal government’s program to combat racism:
http://www.gnb.ca/hrc-cdp/e/sayno.htm

As for hooiser revealing himself to be a racist tool – well lets just say that it’s nice he provided proof for the whole board this time… of course it would have been a little more blatant if he’d quoted something from Mein Kampf or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or perhaps the Turner Diaries – but the effect is pretty much the same. Heck the only thing I’m really surprised about is that he didn’t also post a link to FOXNews doing that favourable piece about Stormfront.org

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
In respect the the article? You're losing me but perhaps a more detailed explanation would work.

No "tip toe" and "close to" are not the same thing as "being". That's not an opinion. If it's racist, say racist. Don't say it's close to it. If I came close to winning and didn't win, then I didn't win.

And if you read the last quote, it said I didn't know anybody that celebrated it. That is the truth. It is not an opinion. It is a pure fact. I don't know anybody that celebrates it. Maybe you do. What don't you get here? You're making the ASSumption that I said no blacks ever celebrate Kwanzaa.

I expect an apology now Shortfuse.

-Rudey

That's opinion. You believe being close isn't racist. Most people believe that being close is just as bad. Thinking about rape is as bad as being a rapist don't you think?

You won't GET an apology because I never said that you SAID no blacks celebrate it. You questioned it by saying you've never heard of anybody celebrating it. But why go back and forth with this?

[DSTCHAOS]

Sometimes I wish the terms "racist" and "racism" would be in the back of people's minds so they can formulate an opinion and response without such emotionally charged catch phrasing. It takes a lot more depth to think and speak beyond catch phrases.

This would give REAL racists and acts of racism the chance to be uncovered instead of being blended in with the prejudiced bigots of the world. The article expressed some unpopular viewpoints. It may be charged by bigotry or even racist ideals. However, sometimes unpopular viewpoints are just unpopular viewpoints.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
That's opinion. You believe being close isn't racist. Most people believe that being close is just as bad. Thinking about rape is as bad as being a rapist don't you think?

You won't GET an apology because I never said that you SAID no blacks celebrate it. You questioned it by saying you've never heard of anybody celebrating it. But why go back and forth with this?

Again, it's not the same. Close to winning (second place) is not the same as winning (first place). There is no opinion. Thinking about rape is not the same as raping someone. You can ask the courts that convict rapists for actions and the victims of rapists who suffered from actions. That was a bad analogy so let's stick with my "First place" and "Second place" analogy instead.

You must have a short memory. You should apologize. I would apologize to you if I made such an accusation. It's only fair.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

And please demonstrate how using your newly defined "Racism" even allows that word to be used here.

I posted a link to a thread on the Alpha Kappa Alpha forum - a black sorority - that had similar viewpoints from people who didn't believe in Kwanzaa as well as background on the creator. Are they racist too now?

-Rudey

Originally posted by RACooper
First off you and I are operating on a different definition and understanding of the term “racist” or “racism”. For me, and most Canadians, racism doesn’t have to be tied into any power structure or relationship… an individual can be racist if they exhibit/display bigotry, racial prejudice, racial stereotypes, even name calling – the definition of a racist is a little more broad up here as you can see. So in effect, to me (and again most Canadians) the term bigot and racist can be used interchangeably, with the same meaning.

Link to “definition” from the federal government’s program to combat racism:
http://www.gnb.ca/hrc-cdp/e/sayno.htm

As for hooiser revealing himself to be a racist tool – well lets just say that it’s nice he provided proof for the whole board this time… of course it would have been a little more blatant if he’d quoted something from Mein Kampf or The Protocols of the Elders of Zion or perhaps the Turner Diaries – but the effect is pretty much the same. Heck the only thing I’m really surprised about is that he didn’t also post a link to FOXNews doing that favourable piece about Stormfront.org

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Thinking about rape is as bad as being a rapist don't you think?

No.

You also can't account for what people are thinking or how close they are coming to being a particular thing. If the person is being a bigot, just call the person a bigot (which is what I thought you did). If they are an extreme bigot, call them an extreme bigot. Bringing in the concepts racist and racism are not as evident just from reading that particular article.