Paper Members

[Ice Cold Kreator]

IotaNet

I second that motion!

Ice Cold Kreator

[Japera1920]

The motion is carried!!!! All in favor, All opposed, any abstentions

I forgot if you were ready for the question. Dang Robert Rules!!!

Hugs and Doves

[Japera1920]

The motion is carried!!!! All in favor, All opposed, any abstentions

I forgot if you were ready for the question. Dang Robert Rules!!!

Hugs and Doves

[BlueReign]

VERY WELL SAID, MY BROTHER, VERY WELL SAID!!!




------------------
BE POSITIVE!!!

[MaMaBuddha]

IotaNet...

( wow, i am talking to the Executive Director)

i has read this whole thread twice and didn't know to put my thoughts into to words that wouldn't offend anyone...greek or non.

but you said it. thank you and i totally agree.

what people need to know, the greeks both BGLO and GLO have some kind of pledge process, where you learn... who your founders are, what they did, why they did it and the history over the years. learning that stuff takes weeks.

getting you behind beat is now and days considered hazing...the days of the CENTURY CLUB are suppose to be gone (guys you know what that is)

The question i am trying to understand what exactly is considered PAPER???? i've seen this word on this board. i've heard it used so much. i want a broken down jist of what being paper is. ya'll are tired of the convo, but i want to know...

The reason why i ask this is....

would honorary members be considered paper?? those who are inducted on a regional or a national level. those who didn't pledge on the collegiate level. those you didn't have hemmed up in the corner making sure they know your grip. those who might have had a height in their career and was extended membership. i can name several people, but i won't for controversial reasons. but a number of basketball, football, politicans, authors, may not have gone through THEE pledge process and are now members.

what do you think??? paper or what??


imagine a subway filled with fallen angels...i am the one nearest the third rail.

[DELTABRAT]

Firtst I'd like to thank IotaNet for the enlightenment. The National Executive Director...WOW!!! Thank you.

Soror MamaBuddha:

All of the examples you described in your post, to put it simply, would be referred to as "paper."

I think the term originated with the idea that people who came in post '90, pretty much signed their name on a piece of "paper," attended x number of days of official ceremonies and activitied and ta-da...they are in the organization. They are _____'s on "paper." They are official member on "paper" meaning, according to Nationals, but that's it. I think the problem lies within individual chapter tradition. Often within the busy schedule of official intake activities, there isn't a focus on THAT PARTICULAR CHAPTER'S LOOOOOONG HISTORY..depending on charter date (LOOOONG may only be a few years or 77 years I think on a national level when considering the organization as a whole, we pledged XYZ Sorority NOT ___ chapter. BUT, there are those who feel very endeared towards their particular chapter as well. It is the link that bonds them to not only hundreds of thousands of women worldwide, but also hundreds of women wo attended X college from back in the 50's, 60's, 70's, etc...then of course the bond with immediate prophytes and L.S's.

There are MANY people who do not want that aspect of XYZ Sorority, ____Chapter to be lost in the MIP shuffle. You can tell me my X (insert number of founders here) but can you tell me about X(insert number of charter members here) who chartered XYZ Sorority back in 19__ (insert year here) when this, that and the other thing was keeping us from even enrolling in ______ (insert college here)University/College.

For some that type of information is very important and so when Sorors (yes, I do call women who go through MIP Sorors) know all of the history and the National songs, that's all well and good. But, again, many chapters have their own songs and traditions that have been passed down for decades. Sorors who come through ____Chapter who don't know those songs may be called "paper."

For the record, I fully understand and support the MIP movement as a tool to better organize the processes of membership into our GLO's. I DO call Women who pledged through MIP Sorors and will continue to do so. I don't think it is fair to hold a grudge against women and men who come into the organization at a time when MIP is in effect. They had no choice in the matter.

I KNOW this is real long, but I had to get it out.

PEACE all

[This message has been edited by DELTABRAT (edited September 01, 2000).]

First let me say a big thank you to Iotanet. It is great to have someone from the national leadership on this board.

One thing that I always ask a bro when he starts talking that MIP stuff, is what have you done to help these individual not become paper? I mean there is sertain information that you simply will not get from MIP, have you taken it upon yourself to make sure that they are tight with thier info.

I just had group/line/intake/whatever you want to call them come in. Now I made sure that these brothers knew everything that they should, becuase first and foremost, the represent my fraternity wherever they go. Secondly they represent my chapter, and I will not have someone out here claiming my chapter and not being able to answer a simply charge, or being caught out there and have to play 20 questions with someone who thinks that they are not frat.

I think that it is incumbent on bras to make sure that new members are tight with thier info.

MN

[AKA2D '91]

MN...

That goes for the Sororities, well at least my sorority as well.

It is OUR duty to make sure these NEOs are on the up and up. That is more important than debating if you are "worthy" or not.

[7BA94]

For all the bravos bravos, I'll keep it real if you didn't pledge you are not as respected as people who did. My opinions of those who didn't have been stated numerous times no need to restate them.

It is wonderful to hear from someone on a national board. If I am not mistaken, Iota Phi Theta was initially founded as a non-hazing fraternity by students who were older than the traditional college students and felt that some of the things the fraternities and sororities were doing did not fit there lifestyle. How do I know this, well my chapter is located at Morgan State University and if I am not mistaken that is the birthplace of Iota Phi Theta. I know the above statement is one of the stated reasons for Iota's founding, at least that is what was put in the yearbooks. Maybe, it was disinformation; if I am wrong I am sure someone will straighten me out.
All that to say that historically Iota was a non-hazing fraternity and somewhere along the line that changed (again if I misstated something I got the information from yearbooks at Morgan). To change the general organizations rules back to what they were orginally is not as much of a stretch.

Segregation was once the law of the land; yet it was a law that was wrong and many people fought to change it not simply accept that it was law. These people openly broke the rules because the rules were wrong. We as a people did not just sit by and follow the rules because as good Americans we should. I feel MIP is wrong and will voice that opinion for as long as I have lungs the voice it or fingers to type it. If something is wrong, it should be pointed out and MIP is wrong. I feel that as a brother it is my duty to point out when something is wrong. Sometimes, the right thing is not what the rules say is the right thing.

[This message has been edited by 7BA94 (edited September 02, 2000).]

[AKA2D '91]

Heyyyyyyyyyyy!

Hold up! hold up!!!!

Wait a minute, wait a minute!!!!

That post that says Blue Reign, was MY POST!

The one right before 7BA...

What tha freak is going on?

There must be some tecnical difficulties going on!

I am sorry, but how you can get from breaking the rules of a frat, to going against the laws of Jim Crow is well beyond me.

Now, I am with you on proclaiming the ills of MIP. I can't say as that I know very many people who actually like the damn thing. But to equate what we do to breaking the rules of segregation is just totally stupid. You are a college educated individual I would assume. How in the fugg can you let such crap come out of your mouth (keyboard).
Now many of us break certain rules of our particular org. I have broken some, not proud of it, but you live and learn, plus it was what I wanted to do, but I would never equate what I did or do with sitting in a restaurant that wouldn't feed Blacks, or boycotting the bus, or any type of civil disobedience.

Get a fugging life man. Damn, you done got my blood pressure up. While you are entitled to your opinion, that crap you just posted is stupid, and doesn't speak very well of you. So you propose that what your frat brother, Martin Luther King did, and what you do are one in the same huh?

“I have been to the mountain top, and I whipped a Spinxman’s ass!”

Folks, forgive the tone of my post, but this really boils my blood. I know people and have family members who were in the struggle, and I think that we as African Americans, as well as White America, owe these people a great deal of gratitude. How do you equate 400 years of oppression with beating someone’s ass is totaly beyond me.


MN

[Blue Sparkle]

I think the problem with MIP is that too many people don't even give it a chance. When I joined Sigma Gamma Rho I was brought in through grad chapter because they were reactivating a dorment chapter. After I got in my sister and I went about learning about our history, songs, and traditions on our own. I will say that we missed some of the bonding sisters who are "on-line" experience. But that didn't make us throw our hands in the air and say the hell with it all. In fact, we made a concerted effort with our next two lines to encourage bonding between the girls. I even talked to some regional and national officers about this issue. What I learned was that the current MIP process wasn't the final version that was envisioned. Actually, it is a starting point from which a more user friendly system can be born. As far as not learning chapter traditions and songs, who's stopping them from learning? It certainly didn't stop me from learning them. And for the record, not only have I answered 3:00a.m. phone calls but have also gotten into my car to drive to another state(4 hour drive)to check up on a soror and her sister who is coming into the sorority. I think most animosity comes from people who came in "paper" and try to claim they were "hazed". The reason I said "hazed" and not "pledged" because you can come through MIP and still be "pledged". The girls I brought in could go through any question-answer session you put in front in them with flying colors. I don't try to front. I was brought in undergrad through a graduate chapter who followed MIP to the absolute letter and I have never gotten any beef from sorors, other greeks, or non-greeks. I know who I am and I love SGRho. I know all the names of the chapters in the state I came in and the state I live in now. Once you got that love and dedication to your organization nobody can tell you differently.

[7BA94]

Of course segregation is not the same as pledging, it is called a parallel. The parallel was in response to a statement by the Iota board member. Some rules are meant to be broken. MIP is a rule that is wrong.

I guess you are the type of person who happily grips up or yo yo's the 100 new kappas made through MIP at some campus. I am sure that is the way the founders of your fraternity wanted things. They wanted one line brother to not know the other. They wanted the line to not know much history of the chapter. They wanted anyone with a couple hundred dollars, decent grades, and some community service to be able to be a member of KAPSI. I am sure that MIP is what the founders wanted when they envisioned KAPSI correct. That is why MIP has been around since 1911 in your fraternity correct. For eighty nine years, people have been able to sign there name spend a weekend and then be a Kappa correct. This is called sarcasm Nupe. If MIP was what the founders wanted, it would have been all we know.

I also know the founders would not have wanted anyone to die or be physical or mentally scarred for life for trying to become a brother. Those instances need to be dealt with on a case by case matter. Here is a parallel Nupe, people get involved in automobile accidents everyday and yet we still drive. As a matter of fact, it is safer to be a pledgee (even an underground pledgee) than it is to drive an automobile. A person is much more likely to be injured or killed while driving than they are while pledging. Should we get rid of cars? Of course not, cars are necessary part of life. Here is another parallel Nupe, they make the people dress the same. They make these students wake up early in the morning to workout. They make these students wear the same clothes for at least 3 hours a day. They make these students do drills where the sole purpose is for them to ram there body into another person. On one day of the week, they make these students perform in front of thousands of people. This abuse last a whole semester (sarcasm). If you have not figured out what I was talking about, it is football. There are thousands of more football injuries every year as compared to pledging injuries. Should we get rid of football all together,or maybe we should let the team who can sing the best song get seven points and whoever comes up with the most best songs wins. Of course, that is ridiculous. These people chose and choose to play a violent game. The administration of the rec councils, high schools, colleges, and professional teams just plan accordingly. Nobody, at least none I have ever seen, is forced to pledge; it is a choice. If they do not want it, the door is always there they can quit at any time.

My belief is that fraternities are suppose to be more selective. You know the old saying many are chosen and few are frozen. I am sure that other NPHC fraternities and sororties have similar sayings. Fraternities are not suppose to be open to everyone. If they were like I said earlier we would not know anything but MIP. The founder's of our organizations did not want this, and since the founders did not want it; it is a rule that should be broken to go back to the orginial parallel.

[DoggyStyle82]

7BA94, that was the best and most cogent message that you have ever posted. I agree wholeheartedly Mr. Iotanet posts were right to a certain extent, but I think his viewpoint skewed the truthfulness of his remarks. The quote that I have the hardest time with is the one about not leaving the fraternities livelihood in the wisdom of 19 year olds. Almost all of our orgs were founded by 19 and 20 yr olds. It is safe to say that their wisdom created some awesome orgs. Also Mr Iotanet is basing his opinions based on legality and liability. But that does not answer the question as to whether a pledged member is better than a paper member. We all know that the member that is doing the work of the org is the best member. But eliminate that from the equation and what is your answer. Many paper members, especially on the alumni level, are the best workers. Why? Because they are trying so hard to prove their worthiness and these are their only moments to bond and learn the ways of the org and their new sisters. Previously, this took place during the pledge process. If paper members want to learn songs, history, chapter specifics, strolls, experience sisterhood, your best chance is to be as involved as possible. Paper members are simply trying harder.

[DoggyStyle82]

I need to break up my posts so as to not make them so long. These replies are directed at Iotanets post (I have similar credentials as you, though I am not a national officer)

1)While there was underground activity prior to MIP, never was it at such levels as now. Never was there the desire to break rules and disrespect the authority of national directives. This has been most harmful, as individuals and chapters have thought themselves to be bigger than the org. This is at the heart of the lawsuits. While not new, it has been excaserbated by MIP.

2)I took my oath under the same constitution and ritual as outlined and written by my founders in 1911. I don't give a bleep about
any constitution written to serve the precepts of lawyers, insurance companies, lenders, and the NPHC (these are puppeteers driving the changes in each org, not the at-large membership) We didn't vote for any changes. Maybe Iota consulted its 10,000 members, but we were not conslted.

3)The definition of hazing has changed and we must comply but there are exceptions. Latino orgs pledge openly, so does the Pershing Rifles and other Greek Non-NPHC orgs.

4) The bond of brotherhood is built on blood, sweat, and tears; of common goals and purposes built upon a connection attained from striving together to meet those goals. Not a checkbook or a written test. MIP is and has proven to be poor and inadequate replacement for pledging. The enmity and division that it has created amongst each org is detrimental and debilitating. This conversation (paper vs. real) did not exist prior to MIP.

Lastly, I am not a hazer, don't believe in it and not one of the 100 or so pledgees that I have brought into the folds can ever say that I did anything harmful or demeaning to them, yet all have sweated and some have cried in trying to reach the brotherhood. All have thanked me for making them the right way and giving them a true appreciation of the rights and priveleges that come with EARNING your membership.