Teen sues over Confederate flag prom dress

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
Does a school's dress code carry over to extracurricular-type events, like the Prom? (Should Prom dress codes be more or less strict than normal school day dress codes?)

At my high school, the dress code still applied. Girls wearing revealing clothing were asked to leave--and the juniors and seniors were all drilled about proper prom attire.

Our dress code--and probably others at schools all over the South--explicitly forbade Rebel Flag attire.

[abaici]

Originally posted by Coramoor
I just think that people should know the entire issue rather than have a narrow view and make incorrect statements.

Are incorrect statements ones that differ from yours?


Also, Soror AKAMonet, it's true that the primary cause of the"War of Northern Aggression" was economic. in nature. However, the economy of the South was based on agriculture. A system that was maintained through slave labor. So, when we say the war was about slavery, I do not believe that anyone is kidding themselves by thinking the morality of the system was at the root. It was all about the money.

[Pike1483]

As far as the girl getting kicked out of prom, I don't agree with censorship, but the girl was told not to wear the dress to the prom, so she shouldn't have been shocked or "defamed" when they told her to go home. If she was trying to make a political statement or protest, that is her right, and while I think she should have been allowed to wear the dress, I do feel that demanding 50, 000 dollars is very frivolous. An apology and cost of the tacky dress? Possibly.

Now I said "I think she should have been allowed to wear the dress," I did not say she should have. I'm from the South, born and raised. My family had many die fighting on both sides of the war, but mainly for the South (my great-great-great grandmother was actually orphaned in the battle of Shiloh), so I can see why people have "Southern Pride" and want to remember their history and what-not. But I also think you can remember your history somewhere other than the prom, and if the school administration had told her not to wear the thing, then that's the dress code.

Anyway, in my opinion and interpretation of the constitution, she had every right to wear the dress. Should she have worn it? No. Should she get compensation because she wore it after being told not to? No. Do I find the flag racist? No.


This brings up more and more debates, such as should states be allowed to have the confederate flag in their state flag (Mississippi)?

What about the Ole Miss Rebels?

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
And while slavery was not the only cause of the Civil War, it WAS a cause. Let's not pretend that the Gone with the Wind depiction of the antebellum (or post-bellum, for that matter) South was legitimate for one second, okay?

Let's not pretend that the North actually went to war to free the slaves, either - that's an even worse post-hoc generalization.

It is certainly ironic (and exceptional) that one of the greatest positives to ever come out of a war was more or less the work of a vocal minority - IIRC, it was the least-popular decision Lincoln made, and he was nearly crushed in the (northern) press for it.

The civil war, and even the 300 years before it, are certainly a massive bruise on the face of American culture, period - I can't imagine celebrating any part of it, especially not in sequined prom-dress form. But again - she most likely has that right, but that's for smarter folk than me to decide.

[KSigkid]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Let's not pretend that the North actually went to war to free the slaves, either - that's an even worse post-hoc generalization.

It is certainly ironic (and exceptional) that one of the greatest positives to ever come out of a war was more or less the work of a vocal minority - IIRC, it was the least-popular decision Lincoln made, and he was nearly crushed in the (northern) press for it.

The civil war, and even the 300 years before it, are certainly a massive bruise on the face of American culture, period - I can't imagine celebrating any part of it, especially not in sequined prom-dress form. But again - she most likely has that right, but that's for smarter folk than me to decide.

It was the least popular decision he made, although he wasn't a popular President at the time, at all. The things said about him the press and by other political figures of the time was less than flattering. It crossed lines that most politicians and editorial writers wouldn't cross today (for the most part). His progression from being reviled and hated to beloved is one of the biggest transformations in presidential history, in my honest opinion.

[KillarneyRose]

I believe that there are Southerners who honestly feel the Confederate flag is a symbol of their ancestors' heroism and pride and I also believe that some people, Southerners or not, associate it with White supremacy. I accept that there is one symbol, and two ways of looking at it.

I'll paraphrase the views of a dear friend who was born and raised in South Carolina. She once told me that, in her opinion, the Confederate flag is a symbol of her heritage and not of hatred. But she would never fly the flag because she knows not everyone agrees with her and she wouldn't want to make anyone else feel uncomfortable. "It's just common courtesy," she says.

That said, the girl was told that she wasn't allowed to wear the gown to the prom so she shouldn't have.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by Pike1483
This brings up more and more debates, such as should states be allowed to have the confederate flag in their state flag (Mississippi)?

Don't forget that Hawaii has the Union Jack of Big Bad Britain on their flag. Maybe they still want to be part of the British Commonwealth? j/k

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by KSig RC
Let's not pretend that the North actually went to war to free the slaves, either - that's an even worse post-hoc generalization.

But where did I say that?

Clearly the slavery debate was not what the Civil War was all about. There were a lot of factors, of which slavery was not the main concern. The aforementioned money issues and disagreements on how government should be run were, of course, a major part. But most of the time when people say the Southerners were going to war because they disagreed with the form of government at the time, part of this involves the fact that they wanted an unregulated slave trade. Let's not kid ourselves.

Nor do I think that the majority of white Northerners were chomping at the bit to end slavery. There were white abolitionists, of course, but they were an extreme minority. The majority of Northerners didn't really give a isht.

Bottom line: the Civil War was about a lot of things, and to simplify to being just "about slavery" or "about money" or "about government" is silly. But let's not pretend that slavery was not part of the issue, because it was. (And conversely, let's also not pretend that slavery was the whole issue, because of course it was not.)

Originally posted by Coramoor
So the majority is always right?

Also, I don't really care much about the Confederate Flag. I just think that people should know the entire issue rather than have a narrow view and make incorrect statements.

I didn't say that one side or the other is "right." I said that there are two sides to the issue which may be equally valid (or not equally valid -- but that's something I'd rather not debate), and that I hope that each side takes a look at the other's point of view before promoting their own. You have every right to be proud of your culture, but when part of that culture is associated with destruction of other cultures, you should be sensitive of how you promote that pride. I think that's pretty straight-forward and common sense, right?

[FHwku]

Originally posted by moe.ron
Seriously, I can't see anything good comming out of the Confederate flag when it come to fashion.

Belt buckles! Lil Jon', Andre3000, and Me!
Andre 3000, a member of the extremely popular Outkast, who frequently wears a Confederate flag belt buckle, is quoted saying, “I wear the belt for Southern pride and to rebel. I don’t take the Confederate flag that serious as far as the racial part is concerned.” ( here )

Originally posted by Rudey
What is so endearing about this flag that even after its modern association with racism, that people want to remember the other things it is associated with?
-Rudey

Lots of symbols are associated with a negative idealogy different from the positive one at it's conception. But I think we should derive the meaning of the symbol E re nata, and not remove a piece of culture due to it's misuse by radical sects.

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
I'll paraphrase the views of a dear friend who was born and raised in South Carolina. She once told me that, in her opinion, the Confederate flag is a symbol of her heritage and not of hatred. But she would never fly the flag because she knows not everyone agrees with her and she wouldn't want to make anyone else feel uncomfortable. "It's just common courtesy," she says.

That is beautifully phrased.

Originally posted by adpiucf
Also ETA: That was one fugly dress. Joan Rivers would be spinning in her grave. If Joan Rivers was dead.

She is dead. Yet, inexplicably, she walks, like a tactless, undead fashion-nazi comprised of phony parts.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
But where did I say that?

Clearly the slavery debate was not what the Civil War was all about. There were a lot of factors, of which slavery was not the main concern. The aforementioned money issues and disagreements on how government should be run were, of course, a major part. But most of the time when people say the Southerners were going to war because they disagreed with the form of government at the time, part of this involves the fact that they wanted an unregulated slave trade. Let's not kid ourselves.

Nor do I think that the majority of white Northerners were chomping at the bit to end slavery. There were white abolitionists, of course, but they were an extreme minority. The majority of Northerners didn't really give a isht.

Bottom line: the Civil War was about a lot of things, and to simplify to being just "about slavery" or "about money" or "about government" is silly. But let's not pretend that slavery was not part of the issue, because it was. (And conversely, let's also not pretend that slavery was the whole issue, because of course it was not.

Heather, you're correct here, but this is not what is being pushed as per this argument, and even here you vastly overstate the role of slavery in the Civil War (while at the same time diminishing it - it's called "stealing thunder," and a fantastic forensic move).

Anyway, regardless, this was entirely my point - I was trying to ensure that people didn't slide all the way across the bench seat of revisionist history and think that in any way the northern forces were going to war to free slaves, at least the vast majority.

Now, to relate this back to the original thread . . . I can see how you could relate the confederacy's battle flag with slavery, but honestly that connection for me is more temporal than literal. Now, this might be because I don't have any ancestral connection to slavery, and my view is obviously tainted by that. Of course, this also works in reverse - hence, the dress is tacky, because it's widely known that this connotation exists for some, but it's pretty obvious that the actual denotation behind the flag is somewhere in between the two views.

[RUgreek]

why don't we get two chicks to put on a confederate and american flag dress and just beat the ever lovin crap out of each other for fun? In the very least, everyone will want to see who wins and it would help promote the awareness of the flag issue...

(just a thought)

RUgreek

[UKDaisy]

Originally posted by crzychx
I live in Lexington, KY & although this girl is from some random bum-fuck county somewhere near here I've never met anyone with so little tact that they would wear a confederate flag anything anywhere.

WHOA..... for starters... I didn't know this thread existed. HAHAHA... it was at my high school too! Good times.... le sigh

Second of all..... "bum-fuck county" I don't think so. WHen I was there"96-00".... my car *other than the classic fixed up cars like the Vettes, Camaros and Mustangs* was the oldest on the parking lot and it was a '92 Buick Park Avenue. So "bum-fuck county" I dont' think so.

Third.... there are confederate flags all over this state. Look around Lex. And parts of WV, SC, NC, GA, etc. Welcome to the south.

I'm not saying whether this is right or not. But its sad that some artsy student wanted to make a point and now my county is "bum-fuck".

[cash78mere]

Originally posted by Rio_Kohitsuji
Hmm...so a girl can go half-naked to her prom (you know the dresses I'm talking about) yet because of the design on this dress this girl can't?

that's exactly what i was thinking!

she should not have been barred from wearing the dress. school officials should be more concerned with the hoochies who come to school wearing little to no clothing and boys with their jeans around their ankles than with a girl who wore a dress that covered herself completely. if she wanted a confederate styled dress, then let her. and if people didn't like it, they could tell her themselves. she shouldn't be stopped from wearing it because some people don't like it. where is the ACLU in this?

[lifesaver]

I'm not making a statement either way on the approperateness of the dress, BUT... If she is so proud of her heritage and the flag, wouldnt it be disrespectful to the confederate flag to make a dress out of it, just like it would be discrespectul to do that to the american flag? So in her trying to make a statement, she is actually disrespecting something the is trying to show she honors and respects....

dumb-ass

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally posted by FHwku

She is dead. Yet, inexplicably, she walks, like a tactless, undead fashion-nazi comprised of phony parts.

LMAO!!!!!!