Odd sex experience, what do you think?

[cashmoney]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Okay, so question for the men: If an incident like this occurred in your chapter house and you know what really happened (let's say the guy had been drinking but wasn't wasted, he knew what he was doing, the girl was incoherent and could not give consent at all), how would you deal with it? What would you like to see be done about it? What would help to lessen the chances of something like this happening again?

I wouldn't say anything nor would I like to see something done about it, if you did it'd be inviting a hell storm. In my view it wasnt rape, the girl knew what she was doing even before (even if you actually think she was incoherent) it all went down. I mean c'mon....she LEFT with the GUY. Thats screaming...I wanna fuck you or do some other crazy sexual act. Chicks don't leave a party/club with you to go home and just talk.....especially drunk chicks. To lessen the chances of something like that happening with the guy again...I'd talk to him about it.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by KSig RC
While I def agree with most of this point, and there's really little to no doubt the kid is a piece of crap (assuming the story is correct as told..), these arguments have little to do with the legal basis for rape.

Does the legal definition say anything about who instigates the act? Just curious if even though the guy was just as messed up but he was still the instigator if that would have any affect on the charge. I understand what you're saying completely otherwise.

I agree, and I disagree. A letter of apology seems like appeasement, while I generally prefer active methods of attempting to 'solve' the issue. I guess I would prefer some action to be taken that requires the dude to learn/improve, whether that be some sort of ridiculous "sensitivity training" or more likely some sort of 'scared straight' class. Who knows, but I greatly prefer active solutions to writing a letter.

The letter of apology would be in addition to counseling and/or educational training. Solely for the woman's benefit that the guy acknowledges what happened probably shouldn't have. Likewise, I think the friend that left her alone in that situation should have to write her one, too.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by cashmoney
I wouldn't say anything nor would I like to see something done about it, if you did it'd be inviting a hell storm. In my view it wasnt rape, the girl knew what she was doing even before (even if you actually think she was incoherent) it all went down. I mean c'mon....she LEFT with the GUY. Thats screaming...I wanna fuck you or do some other crazy sexual act. Chicks don't leave a party/club with you to go home and just talk.....especially drunk chicks. To lessen the chances of something like that happening with the guy again...I'd talk to him about it.

See, and it's this kind of attitude that creates these situations in the first place. She left with this guy because her friend left her. That does not automatically mean she agrees to do the nasty, especially when she's blacking out to the point where she can't remember most of the things that occurred past a certain point in the night. I've kissed a lot of guys when I was drunk, that didn't mean I wanted to sleep with them.

[cashmoney]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
See, and it's this kind of attitude that creates these situations in the first place. She left with this guy because her friend left her. That does not automatically mean she agrees to do the nasty, especially when she's blacking out to the point where she can't remember most of the things that occurred past a certain point in the night. I've kissed a lot of guys when I was drunk, that didn't mean I wanted to sleep with them.

Yea, but how many times have you left and went home with the first time you met them and actually just sat there kissing and did nothing else while you were drunk?

[wrigley]

Originally posted by cashmoney
I wouldn't say anything nor would I like to see something done about it, if you did it'd be inviting a hell storm. In my view it wasnt rape, the girl knew what she was doing even before (even if you actually think she was incoherent) it all went down. I mean c'mon....she LEFT with the GUY. Thats screaming...I wanna fuck you or do some other crazy sexual act. Chicks don't leave a party/club with you to go home and just talk.....especially drunk chicks. To lessen the chances of something like that happening with the guy again...I'd talk to him about it.

Correction according to James' friend version she didn't leave just with the guy, she left with the guy AND a designated driver.The minute she got in that car she had no control of where they would take her Even if she had said "Hey take me home", the designated driver still took her to the guy's place. . Because she was in and out of consciousness, she has no idea if she just had sex with one or two guys.

Cashmoney your analogy that her alleged actions were "screaming I wanna fuck you" that still doesn't get the guy off of the hook. It's as if you're also saying that if a woman wears a provacative outfit anywhere that gives any guy the right to rape her because she is wearing that type of outfit that gave him "the signals" that it was okay.

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by cashmoney
Yea, but how many times have you left and went home with the first time you met them and actually just sat there kissing and did nothing else while you were drunk?

Quite a few, which I guess makes me a bitch and a tease.

[cashmoney]

Originally posted by wrigley
It's as if you're also saying that if a woman wears a provacative outfit anywhere that gives any guy the right to rape her because she is wearing that type of outfit that gave him "the signals" that it was okay.

Thats a bit extreme....but when a girl wears really provocative stuff, wtf do you think she's doing? She isnt stupid...she knows that guys will be swarming on her like flies on shit. Besides....who said anything about rape here? Rape is totally different from having drunk sex when you're really wasted and then feeling shitty a few weeks later.

[cashmoney]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Quite a few, which I guess makes me a bitch and a tease.

And I bet they kicked you out once they figured out you werent coming up off the ass. I know I would've.

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Quite a few, which I guess makes me a bitch and a tease.

nice, i'm a bitch and a tease too! this is exciting news!

[ISUKappa]

Originally posted by cashmoney
Rape is totally different from having drunk sex when you're really wasted and then feeling shitty a few weeks later.

Actually, in the legal definition, Rape is intercourse of any kind where one party does not give consent. I think any lawyer would agree that blacking out would constitute an inability to give consent. That doesn't mean all acts of drunk sex are rape. Lord knows I've done it plenty of times while I was drunk, but in all of those times, save one, I was a consenting adult.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by ISUKappa
Okay, so question for the men: If an incident like this occurred in your chapter house and you know what really happened (let's say the guy had been drinking but wasn't wasted, he knew what he was doing, the girl was incoherent and could not give consent at all), how would you deal with it? What would you like to see be done about it? What would help to lessen the chances of something like this happening again?

Personally I'd like to see him have the living-sh*t kicked out of him.... but in reality we would probibly try to ensure his personal safety while we waited for the cops (that we would call) to take the sack of shit away - while filling out the paperwork to revoke his membership.

How do you lessen the chances of something like this happening? Simple - don't recruit pieces of shit who think that this is "cool"...

[RACooper]

Originally posted by cashmoney
Yea, but how many times have you left and went home with the first time you met them and actually just sat there kissing and did nothing else while you were drunk?

Couple of times actually... along with quite a few members of the chapter... I guess were old-fashioned with that whole make sure our guests get home safe and sound, whether they're drunk or sober - guess it comes from trying to recruit gentlemen.

[James]

Time-out. Say it was one of your best friends as well as chapter members. Would your response be the same? I am not criticising you, I am just wondering if it was less abstract if you think you would have the same response.

Originally posted by RACooper
Personally I'd like to see him have the living-sh*t kicked out of him.... but in reality we would probibly try to ensure his personal safety while we waited for the cops (that we would call) to take the sack of shit away - while filling out the paperwork to revoke his membership.

How do you lessen the chances of something like this happening? Simple - don't recruit pieces of shit who think that this is "cool"...

[cashmoney]

Originally posted by RACooper
Personally I'd like to see him have the living-sh*t kicked out of him.... but in reality we would probibly try to ensure his personal safety while we waited for the cops (that we would call) to take the sack of shit away - while filling out the paperwork to revoke his membership.

How do you lessen the chances of something like this happening? Simple - don't recruit pieces of shit who think that this is "cool"...

I wouldn't be in a fraternity if I thought the brothers would turn me in to the cops if I did something questionable. Who in their right mind would?

[James]

PErsonally.

I mostly go with alphagam-alums viewpoint. As a teen-ager I would have thought it as rape, a literal intepretation. As I have seen more of the world, I know there are more gray areas.

Opinions of the issue have been divided in half. Most of the guys I have spoken to and lesser part of the girls view it like alphagam-alum. It was a bad situation that doesn't merit a label such as rape.

The majority of the girls and a minority of the guys view it as just plain rape.

Interesting split.