GreekChat.com Forums  

Go Back   GreekChat.com Forums > General Chat Topics > News & Politics

» GC Stats
Members: 329,770
Threads: 115,673
Posts: 2,205,413
Welcome to our newest member, zryanlittleoz92
» Online Users: 4,208
0 members and 4,208 guests
No Members online
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-03-2004, 01:50 PM
RACooper RACooper is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta - Canada
Posts: 3,190
Send a message via Yahoo to RACooper
Quote:
Originally posted by Rudey
Dude this is your observation. What happens if that one guy you think may or may not be paramilitary just decided to wear that or say he had some specific reason for wearing it.

As for Arab and Muslim, Chechans are Muslim and often have Arab fighters fighting with them. That's nothing new. Religious demands? These fighters aren't fighting for an hour off to go pray. Their religion is tied in with their nationalism. Arab Muslims are fighting with Chechan Muslims because of Islam.

-Rudey
Actually Chechans are Christians and Muslims... again I saw nothing released by the rebels/terrorists that stated that they were motivated by religion... it has yet to be proven that they were "Islamists" or whatever you care to label them. Why do you feel a need to catagorize the rebels/terrorists so simply? Does it make it easier to understand or dismiss the situation if you can catagorize them as Muslim or Arab?

Historically the region has tie-ins with Muslim and Christian resistance to the Soviet regime, as the region was seen by Soviets as the first line of defense against the spread of religion from the south. Now many of the leaders of the Chechen seperatist movement have ties to Afghanistan (as soldiers or rebels) or to the oppression of the relgious movements by the Soviets (again as soldiers or resisters).
__________________
Λ Χ Α
University of Toronto Alum
EE755

"Cave ab homine unius libri"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-03-2004, 03:21 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
Quote:
Originally posted by RACooper
Actually Chechans are Christians and Muslims... again I saw nothing released by the rebels/terrorists that stated that they were motivated by religion... it has yet to be proven that they were "Islamists" or whatever you care to label them. Why do you feel a need to catagorize the rebels/terrorists so simply? Does it make it easier to understand or dismiss the situation if you can catagorize them as Muslim or Arab?

Historically the region has tie-ins with Muslim and Christian resistance to the Soviet regime, as the region was seen by Soviets as the first line of defense against the spread of religion from the south. Now many of the leaders of the Chechen seperatist movement have ties to Afghanistan (as soldiers or rebels) or to the oppression of the relgious movements by the Soviets (again as soldiers or resisters).
A whole lot of phooey. 20 year old Arab fighters are in Chechnya because of religion. Call it whatever you want.

http://www.msa-natl.org/national/chechnya/

As for those that aren't religious, I doubt you know what you're talking about. First of all Chechnya has a huge Muslim population with high birth rate and most of the fighters are Muslims. They are composed of the Sufi fighters and also the Vakhabite movement - the Vakhabites want to run the state based on Sharia but both are still Muslim.

-Rudey
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-03-2004, 09:51 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mile High America
Posts: 17,088
According to NBC News, 200 dead/700 injured. Remarkable pictures in a story from ITN in Great Britain -- the entire reporter package used by NBC Nightly News.
__________________
Fraternally,
DeltAlum
DTD
The above is the opinion of the poster which may or may not be based in known facts and does not necessarily reflect the views of Delta Tau Delta or Greek Chat -- but it might.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-03-2004, 10:39 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: New York City
Posts: 10,837
Send a message via AIM to Peaches-n-Cream
Quote:
Originally posted by DeltAlum
According to NBC News, 200 dead/700 injured. Remarkable pictures in a story from ITN in Great Britain -- the entire reporter package used by NBC Nightly News.
Do you have a link to a website?


This story is so tragic. I watched the evening news and saw pretty explicit video. My heart and prayers go out to the injured and the families of the dead.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-04-2004, 11:31 PM
Optimist Prime Optimist Prime is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: somewhere in richmond
Posts: 6,906
I think we should offer The Russian Federation immediate diplomatic and (not-so immediate) military support and full cooperation. If we get bin Laden the same day they get whoever is the headdipshitleader of Chezhenya or however its spelled.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-06-2004, 11:55 PM
RACooper RACooper is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Calgary, Alberta - Canada
Posts: 3,190
Send a message via Yahoo to RACooper
Quote:
Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I think we should offer The Russian Federation immediate diplomatic and (not-so immediate) military support and full cooperation. If we get bin Laden the same day they get whoever is the headdipshitleader of Chezhenya or however its spelled.
Actually the US has already given it's diplomatic support to the Russians using whatever means are needed to combat terrorism in Chechnya... back in 01' to be exact; it was part of the political and diplomatic wrangling following 9/11.

The hardline stance by Putin hasn't helped the situation; it can actually be argued that his policy in the region has actually worsened the situation.
__________________
Λ Χ Α
University of Toronto Alum
EE755

"Cave ab homine unius libri"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-07-2004, 12:23 AM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
This is from the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/07/op...brooks.html?hp

Cult of Death
By DAVID BROOKS

Published: September 7, 2004

We've been forced to witness the massacre of innocents. In New York, Madrid, Moscow, Tel Aviv, Baghdad and Bali, we have seen thousands of people destroyed while going about the daily activities of life.

We've been forced to endure the massacre of children. Whether it's teenagers outside an Israeli disco or students in Beslan, Russia, we've seen kids singled out as special targets.

We should by now have become used to the death cult that is thriving at the fringes of the Muslim world. This is the cult of people who are proud to declare, "You love life, but we love death." This is the cult that sent waves of defenseless children to be mowed down on the battlefields of the Iran-Iraq war, that trains kindergartners to become bombs, that fetishizes death, that sends people off joyfully to commit mass murder.

This cult attaches itself to a political cause but parasitically strangles it. The death cult has strangled the dream of a Palestinian state. The suicide bombers have not brought peace to Palestine; they've brought reprisals. The car bombers are not pushing the U.S. out of Iraq; they're forcing us to stay longer. The death cult is now strangling the Chechen cause, and will bring not independence but blood.

But that's the idea. Because the death cult is not really about the cause it purports to serve. It's about the sheer pleasure of killing and dying.

It's about massacring people while in a state of spiritual loftiness. It's about experiencing the total freedom of barbarism - freedom even from human nature, which says, Love children, and Love life. It's about the joy of sadism and suicide.

We should be used to this pathological mass movement by now. We should be able to talk about such things. Yet when you look at the Western reaction to the Beslan massacres, you see people quick to divert their attention away from the core horror of this act, as if to say: We don't want to stare into this abyss. We don't want to acknowledge those parts of human nature that were on display in Beslan. Something here, if thought about too deeply, undermines the categories we use to live our lives, undermines our faith in the essential goodness of human beings.

Three years after Sept. 11, too many people have become experts at averting their eyes. If you look at the editorials and public pronouncements made in response to Beslan, you see that they glide over the perpetrators of this act and search for more conventional, more easily comprehensible targets for their rage.

The Boston Globe editorial, which was typical of the American journalistic response, made two quick references to the barbarity of the terrorists, but then quickly veered off with long passages condemning Putin and various Russian policy errors.

The Dutch foreign minister, Bernard Bot, speaking on behalf of the European Union, declared: "All countries in the world need to work together to prevent tragedies like this. But we also would like to know from the Russian authorities how this tragedy could have happened."

It wasn't a tragedy. It was a carefully planned mass murder operation. And it wasn't Russian authorities who stuffed basketball nets with explosives and shot children in the back as they tried to run away.

Whatever horrors the Russians have perpetrated upon the Chechens, whatever their ineptitude in responding to the attack, the essential nature of this act was in the act itself. It was the fact that a team of human beings could go into a school, live with hundreds of children for a few days, look them in the eyes and hear their cries, and then blow them up.

Dissertations will be written about the euphemisms the media used to describe these murderers. They were called "separatists" and "hostage-takers." Three years after Sept. 11, many are still apparently unable to talk about this evil. They still try to rationalize terror. What drives the terrorists to do this? What are they trying to achieve?

They're still victims of the delusion that Paul Berman diagnosed after Sept. 11: "It was the belief that, in the modern world, even the enemies of reason cannot be the enemies of reason. Even the unreasonable must be, in some fashion, reasonable."

This death cult has no reason and is beyond negotiation. This is what makes it so frightening. This is what causes so many to engage in a sort of mental diversion. They don't want to confront this horror. So they rush off in search of more comprehensible things to hate.

-Rudey
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-08-2004, 01:55 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Taking lessons at Cobra Kai Karate!
Posts: 14,928
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...=1078397702269

Beslan siege victims to be flown to Israel
By JPOST.COM STAFF

Child survivors of last week's terror attack on a Russian school are to be airlifted to Israel for treatment at facilities specializing in such care.

The children and their mothers will be flown here by the Michael Cherney Fund, which was created after the Dolphinarium suicide bomb attack in Tel Aviv, which killed 20 teenagers and wounded over 100 in 2001. The Fund also helped the victims of a May 2002 bombing in south Russia, where 10 children were killed and many more wounded.

On Tuesday night, Russians got a horrific glimpse of conditions inside the Beslan school gymnasium when a television station broadcast chilling images of the heavily armed, hooded assailants amid the crowd of women, children and men. NTV television said the pictures were recorded by the assailants presumably so they could give an accounting to their leaders.

Footage showed terrorists preparing bombs in front of over 1,000 hostages in the cramped gymnasium.

Released only days after family members buried their children and loved ones, the graphic images forced the world to peer closely into the conditions that preceded the tragic deaths of over 300 hostages.

Hooded black- and camouflage-clad terrorists wired bombs through the basketball hoops while hostages sat, some calm, some frozen in fear, in the gymnasium littered with explosive materials. One attacker in camouflage and a black hood stood amid the hostages with a boot on what NTV said was a book rigged with a detonator.

A thick streak of blood stained the wood floor, as if a bleeding body had been pulled across.

Various officials had previously leaked some details of the investigation, but Wednesday's broadcast was the first attempt by the government to give a formal account of the tragedy that has gripped the nation for the past week. The prosecutor said his information was based on interviews with witnesses and the one alleged attacker detained by authorities.

One detainee, Nur-Pashi Kulayev, said the group's leader, who went by the name Colonel, shot one of the militants and said he would do the same to any other militants or hostages who did not show "unconditional obedience."

Later that day, he detonated the explosives worn by two female attackers, killing them, in order to enforce the lesson, Ustinov said.

Terrorists seized the Beslan school on September 1, a day after a suicide bombing in Moscow killed 10 people and just over a week after two Russian passenger planes crashed following explosions and killed all 90 people aboard - two attacks authorities suspect were linked to the war in Chechnya.

The official death toll of the three-day siege, which ended in deadly explosions and gunfire, stood at 335, plus 30 attackers; the regional Health Ministry said 326 of the dead had been hostages, and the Emergency Situations Ministry said 156 of the dead were children.

With AP

-Rudey
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-08-2004, 04:04 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
GreekChat Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Mile High America
Posts: 17,088
Rudey,

Thanks for the last two posts. There is a lot of important food for thought there.
__________________
Fraternally,
DeltAlum
DTD
The above is the opinion of the poster which may or may not be based in known facts and does not necessarily reflect the views of Delta Tau Delta or Greek Chat -- but it might.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-09-2004, 05:30 PM
dzfan dzfan is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 524
yes indeed-and our thoughts and prayers are with those families that have lost ones in the incident or are nursing their loved ones back to recovery. May they be blessed...
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:01 PM
cashmoney cashmoney is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: $outh Beach
Posts: 4,231
You know, the way I look at is this is russia's own damn fault. This was totally preventable. The world saw what happened to us on 9/11. Ever since terrorism has been deemed as a global threat. It has been the topic of discussions around the world and been a major concern of most of the world leaders. Why then would Russia think they are immune to the very same type of terrorism that was bestowed upon the United States when they have all those pissed off Chechens living with them? Now they're all pissed off and will probably take some military action against chechnya. Well, all I have to say is " Welcome to the club there Vladimir" Maybe now they'll understand that the world must take pre-emptive action against any form of a threat and not care what the UN or France & Germany have to say about it.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:15 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,668
Cash, I agree with you that this is Russia's 9/11. In saying that, part of 9/11 was that it really was not preventable. How the heck to you prevent a bunch of Muslim-seperatist rebel/terrorists from storing weapons in a school, then storming it? How could you predict this would be the way they attacked? The closest they've done to this was the Moscow theatre. We all remember how Russia seemed to forget about that one so quickly.

I'm not sure that this will have the same impact on Russia that 9/11 did on us. Even if public sentiment swings a certain way, the simple fact is that Russia can't really afford to do anything about this stuff.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:52 PM
cashmoney cashmoney is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: $outh Beach
Posts: 4,231
I'm not only talking about this incident. I'm talking about everything thats been happening there. I know this is the hostage thread, but I was mainly aiming at this and the airline bombings over there. Ole' vlad over there has always downplayed any sort of terrorism to their airline industry. Maybe now they'll take more of a pre-emptive strike approach to things and actually join us in the defeat of terrorism instead of siding with Jacques-lets-only-hit-them-with-rocks Chirac. The russians may be a bunch of dirty, back ally dealing, washed out communists....but at least when they say they're taking a firm stance on things they actually follow through to the best of their ability ( which isnt all that great at times). With the French, they'll be nice to your face because they want something from you but then turn around and do business with your enemies and then act like they're the good country that wants peace for the world.......all while having their own troubles with the neo-nazi terrorist in their own country. I'm just waiting for something shitty to happen in Paris so that I can see what the response will be both politically and socially.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:56 PM
Kevin Kevin is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 18,668
Maybe Russia will change. It's a VERY complicated country with very complicated politics.

We'll just have to wait and see.

As far as France... I wish I hadn't wasted 3 years of HS and 3 semesters of college learning that language.

I could have learned something useful like Spanish instead.
__________________
SN -SINCE 1869-
"EXCELLING WITH HONOR"
S N E T T
Mu Tau 5, Central Oklahoma
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-10-2004, 03:05 PM
cashmoney cashmoney is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: $outh Beach
Posts: 4,231
Quote:
Originally posted by ktsnake
Maybe Russia will change. It's a VERY complicated country with very complicated politics.

We'll just have to wait and see.

As far as France... I wish I hadn't wasted 3 years of HS and 3 semesters of college learning that language.

I could have learned something useful like Spanish instead.

Yea, I took 4 years of French......living in Florida I should have taken Spanish. Now I regret it.




On Russia, it's not really that complicated. One word; CORRUPTION. It rules russia. Deep down I think lil' vlad is a good man that could turn his country around for the better. But things being the way they are, I think his hands are tied behind his back in many areas in the political arena.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.