Sholuld Greeks Speahead a movement to reduce the drinking age to 18?

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by aephi alum

Maybe that's the right approach... have a graduated drinking age in combination with stiffer DUI penalties for those under 21.

I'm becoming more and more an advocate of the graduated drivers licenses (also being tied in as a measure to decrease high school dropouts), as well as more severe and public penalties for DUI's, especailly repeat DUI offenders (such as the bright license plates or licenses, breathalyzer interlocks, etc...)

I'm all for having a postive social experience in college...but, the emphasis all too often is NOT on the "positive" aspects...it is up to all students, Greeks especially, to set the positive examples, and to change the status quo.

[James]

Are you sure about 18 on bases? I was told by some military people that was changed under pressure political.

I am not saying that it might not go on with a wink and a nod, but I don't think its a matter of policy anymore.

Originally posted by LXAAlum
Good point, but not necessarily true. For the military, those aged 18 to 21 CAN drink beer, if on a military base, at a military facility (such as the enlisted men's club on base, for example). Why? Because a military base is under the jurisdiction of the military and the UCMJ guidelines. Not only that, but specifically for the Navy, should a unit (i.e. ship) be forward deployed and away from any ports-of-call in excess of 120 days, the crew is allowed a ration of beer from time to time, including those under 21, but not under 18.
...

[Tom Earp]

James, not sure what you are posting about?

I think, but not sure, that under 21 can drink in post but not off.

I do not want to be quoted on this as not sure.

[James]

Tom, I had been told that they changed the rules.

Originally posted by Tom Earp
James, not sure what you are posting about?

I think, but not sure, that under 21 can drink in post but not off.

I do not want to be quoted on this as not sure.

[LXAAlum]

Apparently, the previous policy on alcohol, at least for the Navy...did change 8 years ago. Sorry for any confusion - I was under the impression you still could drink under 21, and apparently you can, but the limitations have increased.

I found this at http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/...6/nns96012.txt

The ALNAV implements an immediate policy change regarding
alcohol consumption by members under the age of 21.
Effective April 1, 1996, all Department of the Navy bases
and installations will be required to strictly conform with the
drinking age limitations of the state or country in which they
are located. This revokes previous exceptions -- most notably
the one allowing Navy and Marine Corps installations within 50
miles of a foreign country with a lower drinking age (i.e.
Mexico) to permit underage drinking at certain establishments on
base.
Overseas installations, and ships or activities visiting
foreign ports, will conform to local country law. But in no
case will drinking be permitted below the age of 18.

[kleptobyte]

Originally posted by James
Underage drinking is killing Greeks more than any other topic.

But I think its like the prohibition situation, you have just have to concede that 18-20 year olds are going to drink and that coming up with stiffer and stiffer penalities is just a way of persecuting a group of citizens

As far as Greek Life goes, this generally accepted social activitiy is going to be the bane of all of us because its a behavioral fact: People drink under age.

ITs the single biggest reason why chapters get their pulled. And in almost every case where the drinkers are underage, the chapter is auotmatically at fault.

I think greeks should head a lobby to do this before we eventually lose it all.

Yeah, but providing minors with alcohol is a crime and the behavior is criminal. Stop providing alcohol to minors and you won't have a problem.

If they obtain the booze somewhere else and do not consume it on your property with your knowledge, there's no risk. Grow up and recruit academics rather than alcoholics.

[PhoenixAzul]

What I've noticed here in the UK/Northern Ireland/ Republic of Ireland is a very different culture around drink. The pub (short for public house, FYI) is an extention of the home almost...a really large parlour with footy on the TV and good chips and a cheap pint. England recently extended serving hours in bars, and it was expected to explode the number of drink driving/alcohol infraction charges...truth is that there simply wasn't an increase.

The R. o. Ireland just published last year's drink driving figures...for all 26 counties, there were only 33 arrests. And being arrested for drink driving in ROI and UK is almost immediate revokation of your DL. Part of the reason is the ease/cost of getting a taxi. It's easier/cheaper to get a taxi to the pub with 5 of your best mates for 5 pound than get in the car, spend the petrol, and then pay to park. People rarely rarely rarely drive drunk here. It carries a HUGE stigma.

Compare that with Pittsburgh, where there are maybe 2 cab companies, and it can take well over an hour to get one to come, if it shows at all. Belfast has over 20 different cab companies, not including the ones on the outskirts.Then the cost....I'd be willing to guess that it'd cost you the better part of 50 dollars to go from downtown to the airport. You can get a bus from Belfast City Center to the Int Airport for 7 pound return, taxi costs about 20 pound, but its almost an hour drive. So what do people do? drive home drunk, especially because the buses are basically useless after 8. Belfast has set up a "get home safe" bus service that stops in the neighborhoods with high amounts of students, pubs and clubs. Cheap fare too (they make it up on volume!).

And you RARELY if EVER hear of anyone dying of alcohol poisoning.

Ok, rant over.

Otterbein has the distinction of being in the "Dry Capital of the World". Up until this past election, you could not buy or sell alcohol within Westerville city limits. Now there is a pub-style restaurant that can sell wine/beer, and a pizza place that can sell you a 6 pack. Alcohol is not permitted on campus, or at campus events. But there's still a fair bit of drink consumed, despite insistance that it doesnt. Just because you cant get it in westerville doesnt mean that it doesnt get drunk.

Long and short of it? I'd vote for the legal age being 18, and I don't even drink.

[Taualumna]

What about teaching young people to drink properly? As in offering wine tasting and etiquette seminars to students? Maybe if young people KNEW how to drink, then they'd be more careful?

[Greekopedia]

Originally posted by Taualumna
What about teaching young people to drink properly? As in offering wine tasting and etiquette seminars to students? Maybe if young people KNEW how to drink, then they'd be more careful?

The problem isnt the age... the problem is the culture.

I rather see Greeks establish a culture of responsible drinking rather than lobbying for a change in the law. People will drink regardless of age restrictions... they should learn to drink responsibly.

Why get wasted all the time??? Hangovers suck anyway.

[Taualumna]

Originally posted by Greekopedia
The problem isnt the age... the problem is the culture.

I rather see Greeks establish a culture of responsible drinking rather than lobbying for a change in the law. People will drink regardless of age restrictions... they should learn to drink responsibly.

Why get wasted all the time??? Hangovers suck anyway.

That's why young people need to know. For example, I KNOW that for my height and weight, I will start getting tipsy after two consecutive drinks (without food), so I try to nurse my drinks and only drink when there is lots of food available. Alcohol wasn't seen as a big sin in my family, so when I turned 19, I didn't go out to party and get wasted like many of my friends. In fact, my parents took me to a nice little restaurant and ordered me a glass of wine. My 19th birthday was also not my first "legal" drink, since I had gone to the Dominican Republic the spring before.

[dekeguy]

I am reasonably sure this has been mentioned before but I think it needs to be said again. When the full age of majority and the voting age were 21 it made at least some sense to regulate legal drinking at that age. However the age of majority and the voting age were lowered to 18 quite a few years back. If one is old enough to vote, to contract, to be seen in all things as an adult member of the citizenry and to be held accountable for one's actions as a full fledged adult it is hard to defend the 21 year restriction. There are considerations regarding propensity of younger people to over do it and get into/cause trouble, but equal justice under the law argues strongly that fair is fair and equality of treatment is a basic human right.
For me, the most basic argument is simply that if one is old enough to fight for and perhaps die for one's country then one is old enough to have a drink in that country. When I was wearing the green suit not a few of my troopers were theoretically too young to drink but they sure as hell were old enough to get shot at.

[Wolfman]

Just an observation here, as it regards this issue and the call to change drinking age limits. Speaking as an outsider, as it regards "Greeks," to my knowledge, specifically alcohol-related deaths in NPHC groups are neglible or non-existent. The perception among many black Greeks is that white Greek organizations are "drinking clubs," among other things. This is a stereotype but there must be some grain of truth to this assertion. I say this not so much to cast aspersions but to highlight that there must be a "cultural" phenomenon here, just as hazing deaths and the "culture of hazing" is the biggest risk management problem amongst NPHC groups. Is this a wrong-headed assumption?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Wolfman
Just an observation here, as it regards this issue and the call to change drinking age limits. Speaking as an outsider, as it regards "Greeks," to my knowledge, specifically alcohol-related deaths in NPHC groups are neglible or non-existent. The perception among many black Greeks is that white Greek organizations are "drinking clubs," among other things. This is a stereotype but there must be some grain of truth to this assertion. I say this not so much to cast aspersions but to highlight that there must be a "cultural" phenomenon here, just as hazing deaths and the "culture of hazing" is the biggest risk management problem amongst NPHC groups. Is this a wrong-headed assumption?

No. White people in general like drinking and sex in college. It's our American dream.

-Rudey

[Tom Earp]

Cant You see, Greeks have no say.

It is all our fault as Greeks and placing it on Whites as opposed to Blacks as a Orgainations it showing a lot of Ignoance.

[Alwayslistening]

Abosulutly not. The last thing the Greek System needs is a nation wide push to drink more. For in a sense thats what we'd be doing. Let's face we're not the most liked people in the word so why contiue to shoot our selves in the foot?