Another cultural phenomenon: Rape

[krazy]

Well, to be honest, you cannot judge the islamic religion by basing on the turmoil in the Mid-East right now. That is not Islam. I like religious debates...

[damasa]

Originally posted by _Opi_
Ksig,

Ok...Racist and PREJUDICED...happy?

And you still don't get the point of why I am upset with what rudy said..so I am not going to repeat myself!!

How can you add an element to your basis when you couldn't define a direct position against Rudey's (with the e) so-called "racist" stance?

Trust me here, your argument is flawed to no end and you dig yourself deeper by simply adding to it without really defending your position.

Edited because I made a boo-boo.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by krazy
Well, to be honest, you cannot judge the islamic religion by basing on the turmoil in the Mid-East right now. That is not Islam. I like religious debates...

Well to be honest, I'm not judging Islamic religion and i didn't bring up any turmoil.

I mean let's not generalize when your economies have shrunk, your people can't vote, your women are second class citizens, dictators cut your head off and torture you, you actively participate in the slave trade.

-Rudey
--Yeah today I think I'm going to go and actively trade on some middle eastern market...haha that was funny.

[krazy]

I wasn't trying to start anything with you, I just skimmed the former posts and basically thought that was the theme of the thread at this point. It seemed everyone was mad at you for saying something about Islam... I just wanted in on the debate, thats all. I guess I am off key in here.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
Well to be honest, I'm not judging Islamic religion and i didn't bring up any turmoil.

I mean let's not generalize when your economies have shrunk, your people can't vote, your women are second class citizens, dictators cut your head off and torture you, you actively participate in the slave trade.

-Rudey
--Yeah today I think I'm going to go and actively trade on some middle eastern market...haha that was funny.

As opposed to a culture that actively promoted the exploitation or marginalization of peoples of other race, colour or creed; a culture that by itself supports the drug industry worldwide; a culture that is ethnocentric that it will never give any other culture or religion a fair and equal judgement; and a culture that decries the oppression of ideas, free speech, and the resriction of other freedoms, but is happy to inflict this on others and shockingly themselves.


You have failed to examine the issues behind the article, then jumped to a conclusion that most fitted your bias.... congradulations you could be a Fox reporter

In France there is a undercurrent of racial predudice, or more acurately a anti-immigrant bias; the original article goes into depth exploring this issue, and why this bias precluded police investigation and why the community felt that even if they went to the police it would only make things worse.

[RACooper]

Now did my post piss-you off?

Well I generalized and made use of sterotypes too..... now consider how your sterotypical and racist views made others feel. Grow-up, expand your mind to include more than a narrow view of the world, and use the education that hopefully you earned.

[Cloud9]

Also, I don't really know what I think about the whole issue yet, but on a specific point...

Just to let you know, there are thousands of slaves in the US today. And by slave I don't mean someone working for crappy wage, I mean human beings who are bought and sold by and for American citizens IN America.

[AXJules]

Don't take this as sarcasm, I really do want to know---

What do you mean by slaves??? Are we talking people that clean houses, do labor, or in a more figurative sense?


ETA: In my Female history class last year the teacher was trying to convince us that women that are secretaries, maids, or cooks are slaves. I hope that's not what you meant.

Originally posted by Cloud9
Just to let you know, there are thousands of slaves in the US today. And by slave I don't mean someone working for crappy wage, I mean human beings who are bought and sold by and for American citizens IN America.

<sniff> <sniff> I smell something, do y'all?

Smells like a big fat case of Liberal Hyperbole.

Kitso
KS 361 slaves that if are in the US, i'll eat

[Rudey]

Originally posted by AXJules
Don't take this as sarcasm, I really do want to know---

What do you mean by slaves??? Are we talking people that clean houses, do labor, or in a more figurative sense?


ETA: In my Female history class last year the teacher was trying to convince us that women that are secretaries, maids, or cooks are slaves. I hope that's not what you meant.

As in the Sudan is a very active participent in the slave trade.

-Rudey
--Not secretaries because that'd mean there were offices and women were allowed to work.

[Rudey]

Honestly go back to the military because I can't see a use for your intellectual talents anywhere outside of an environment where people tell you what to do.

Everything you said is complete crap. Please stop talking to me because you are an idiot and I haven't seen you post one intelligent thing. Honestly you even make me hate Canadians and that's hard because they don't do anything to anyone except eskimos.

-Rudey
--I am putting you on ignore now so feel free to respond and not have me read it.

Originally posted by RACooper
As opposed to a culture that actively promoted the exploitation or marginalization of peoples of other race, colour or creed; a culture that by itself supports the drug industry worldwide; a culture that is ethnocentric that it will never give any other culture or religion a fair and equal judgement; and a culture that decries the oppression of ideas, free speech, and the resriction of other freedoms, but is happy to inflict this on others and shockingly themselves.


You have failed to examine the issues behind the article, then jumped to a conclusion that most fitted your bias.... congradulations you could be a Fox reporter

In France there is a undercurrent of racial predudice, or more acurately a anti-immigrant bias; the original article goes into depth exploring this issue, and why this bias precluded police investigation and why the community felt that even if they went to the police it would only make things worse.

[AXJules]

I never actually weighed in with my opinion (which I know most of you don't want, but oh well.......)

To be honest I've read over all this trying to ignore the cries of racism and stereotyping b/c I think a lot of times those accusations get in the way of the true discussion. A lot of times, they're founded, as well, which is why I kind of leave them out of my own opinion.

A big part of Rudey's original point (let me know if I'm wrong, sir) was that little kids, BABIES, for christ sakes, are getting raped overseas. No one is saying that it never happens here, no one is saying that its all because they're Muslim (the example in Africa is one more place). What I think is kind of undeniable is that it happens a lot there, almost like its a trend.

You cannot tell me that raping babies is a trend in the U.S.. There are a lot of other countries that do not give women half as many rights as we have here. In some ways, that lack of respect trickles down the chain and that's what you wind up with. Whether that lack of respect comes from government, religion, or another force is a totally different subject.

**let the flames begin**

[Rudey]

While some idiots can't think and like to pretend they're smart, the original point is that women are treated badly and among items in that treatment is rape. And then afterwards the women will be shunned by their family and often executed (outside of France of course). The neighborhood will pretty much blame it on the women. And then idiots try to tell you "we don't know what's good for them" or "it's a different culture".

-Rudey

Originally posted by AXJules
I never actually weighed in with my opinion (which I know most of you don't want, but oh well.......)

To be honest I've read over all this trying to ignore the cries of racism and stereotyping b/c I think a lot of times those accusations get in the way of the true discussion. A lot of times, they're founded, as well, which is why I kind of leave them out of my own opinion.

A big part of Rudey's original point (let me know if I'm wrong, sir) was that little kids, BABIES, for christ sakes, are getting raped overseas. No one is saying that it never happens here, no one is saying that its all because they're Muslim (the example in Africa is one more place). What I think is kind of undeniable is that it happens a lot there, almost like its a trend.

You cannot tell me that raping babies is a trend in the U.S.. There are a lot of other countries that do not give women half as many rights as we have here. In some ways, that lack of respect trickles down the chain and that's what you wind up with. Whether that lack of respect comes from government, religion, or another force is a totally different subject.

**let the flames begin**

[Cloud9]

Oh Kitso, you really need to start reading more my friend, and no, Scholastic doesn't count. Do a simple search on google

Slaves as in people who are house servants, field workers, and sex slaves. Does no one know about this? There was a huge article about it in National Geographic not too long ago. It's underground, not endorsed by the government, but it's very hard for authorities to infiltrate the slave trade. It often involves teen runaways and immigrants. What often happens is that illegal immigrants are promised jobs, and are instead forced to work for nothing, sometimes in fields, sometimes in a family's home. Sometimes destitute families are "loaned" a large amount of money with huge interest, which they can work to "pay back," but of course the debt is never paid and is instead passed on to their children. And then there are the young girls, who are enticed into working as prostitutes, and become the property of the pimps, who do not pay them but instead buy them what they "need', and can sell them to other pimps. Sometimes families sell their children themselves.

In other countries children are sold to factories, and the other examples I used also exist. Slavery exists in every single country in the world today. It is not a problem of the past for anyone.

[Cloud9]

Originally posted by Rudey
While some idiots can't think and like to pretend they're smart, the original point is that women are treated badly and among items in that treatment is rape. And then afterwards the women will be shunned by their family and often executed (outside of France of course). The neighborhood will pretty much blame it on the women. And then idiots try to tell you "we don't know what's good for them" or "it's a different culture".

-Rudey

On that, I do agree, just as it's stupid to focus only on the bad, it's stupid to ignore the bad that does exist. Islam is not evil, the Middle East is not an inherently "bad" place, however, this particular issue is an awful one, and should not be condoned. Culture is not an excuse. It's not an excuse anywhere. That should be the focus of the discussion. Rape is not acceptable, I don't care if an entire population endorses it as a part of tradition, it's still wrong.

The point is that the validity of culture ANYwhere, including here, does not extend to the abuse of other human beings.