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  #61  
Old 07-21-2003, 03:27 PM
moe.ron moe.ron is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by justamom
A TWIST!-WHAT IF- she took some drugs up there and they started in on each other, SHE gets rough and crazy and he has to ward HER off! He still wants to keep it quiet from his wife but is advised not to say she was attacking him because a jury wouldn't buy it! Ya NEVER know!
That would be a really nice twist for the made for tv movie.
I could see the title, Kobe: How I Got Dunk By A Cheerleader
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  #62  
Old 07-21-2003, 03:41 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by justamom
I agree-no sympathy for a cheat. My bro-in-law sent this e-


We have a case in Georgia right now where a high school athlete has been sentenced to 15 years in prison for the rape of a classmate. I've studied the case, and I believe him to be innocent. The athlete is black, his victim was a white girl. I believe that somehow the girl's parents found out about an episode of consensual sex between the two, or at least the girl worried that this was about to happen. She was scared to death that her parents were going to find that she had been dating a young black man. Her solution? Claim she was raped. This black kid raped her. She then, in my opinion, stood back and watched this kid go off to 15 years in prison because she didn't want her parents and friends to find out the truth.
reputation, then the wrong person is going to trial.
Oh, JAM, I think that's a case that's right in this town. I didn't even know the girl was white--no one out of that community did--until a couple of weeks ago. However, I totally believe he was guilty. For a couple of years, I had been hearing teachers from that school talk about a student athlete who was committing all kinds of sexual harassment and getting away with it--one time he exposed himself to a whole class, other times he tried to fondle girls of all races. The former principal kept covering it up because the kid was such a good athlete...one girl was hysterical because she went in to report that the boy had exposed himself to her and the principal kept repeating hypnotically, "That's not what you saw...you only think you saw it," and she finally ran out of his office. And finally the student was caught!

Now all hell is breaking loose because of the years of coverups but some people are focusing only on the black/white issue--and incredibly enough, saying we should feel sorry for the athlete because he lost a huge college scholarship!
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  #63  
Old 07-21-2003, 04:44 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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Only two people in the world know what went on in that room. It will be the job of the lawyers to argue both sides and the jury to decide what is the truth. Hopefully, the jury will come to an accurate decision without being influenced by wealth or fame.
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  #64  
Old 07-21-2003, 04:57 PM
WhirlwindTNX WhirlwindTNX is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cream
Only two people in the world know what went on in that room. It will be the job of the lawyers to argue both sides and the jury to decide what is the truth. Hopefully, the jury will come to an accurate decision without being influenced by wealth or fame.
Okay. . .and that they won't be affected by some sob story. . .which relates to both of them right now. . . .
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  #65  
Old 07-22-2003, 08:45 AM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
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Maybe this should be in News - but since it relates to Kobe, I'll post it here - interesting article from ESPN.com's Page 2


http://msn.espn.go.com/page2/s/jackson/030721.html

I never realized I was a raging feminist until this weekend.


On paper, I'm one of the last people you'd expect to hear extolling the wisdom of Gloria Steinem or Martha Burk.


A clean image and a tearful press conference don't necessarily mean "not guilty."
For cripesakes, I'm one of the editors in charge of Page 2 -- you know, the section of ESPN.com that has published approximately 2,500 photos of Anna Kournikova, given Gregg Easterbrook a forum for his cheesecake "art" and turned Jennie Finch into a household name.


But this Saturday afternoon, I realized that ... uh, I'm not like other guys.


Or at least I'm not like the guys who I've heard discussing the Kobe Bryant case over the last couple of weeks. My car nearly careened off the road Saturday when I heard the host of a sports-talk radio show in New York offer this summary of the sexual-assault case against the Lakers superstar:


When you first hear that some woman has accused Kobe of sexual assault, your first thought is obviously that this must be some gold-digger or some woman who tried to "entrap" an NBA star. After all, we know Kobe, and this is totally out of character for him. These women are out there, and it's a dangerous world for these guys.


I'm sorry, but I must be living on a different planet here. Maybe I've just read too many tales of athletes' late-night activities off the police blotter, or maybe I'm too in touch with the "divine secrets" of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood.


Either way, when I hear that a professional athlete is being charged with rape, my first thought isn't that he's the victim. Nor do I immediately envision some sort of vexing vixen preying on poor unsuspecting millionaire athletes in a hotel lobby.


No, my first thought is to fear that a horrible crime has occurred ... and to hope that I'm wrong.


And, yes, that's my first thought no matter how well I "know" the athlete -- whether that athlete is a "thug" like (fill-in-the-blank with your NBA bad boy of choice), or a "solid citizen" like Ray Allen or Kobe Bryant.


I certainly "know" Kobe Bryant better than most people on the street. I've interviewed him several times, including a brief one-on-one at last year's ESPY Awards. I've watched hundreds of his games and countless press conferences. I've seen more of his TV commercials than I care to count.


(I've also covered enough pro sporting events -- from the Super Bowl to the NBA Finals -- to know plenty about groupies and the world of temptations that confront professional athletes.)


And after all that, this is what I "know" about Kobe Bryant: He's eloquent and thoughtful. He gives good sound bites. He speaks Italian. He carries himself with class on and off the basketball court. And he's one of the best basketball players to ever lace up a pair of sneakers.


After last Friday's mesmerizing news conference at the Staples Center, I also now "know" that Kobe cheated on his wife of two years, a woman who bore his first child a mere seven months ago.


Here's what I don't "know" about Kobe Bryant: I don't know how he treats his family when they're behind closed doors. I don't know what his sexual habits are. I don't know if he has a raging temper. I don't know what he might be capable of when no one is around.


Look around your office or your school. No matter how much you think know some of the people that you come in contact with every single day, you probably don't know the answers to any of the questions above.


District Attorney Mark Hurlbert wouldn't put his career on the line if he didn't have a case.
Remember, we thought we knew Kirby Puckett, O.J. Simpson and Bill Clinton.


Now, I'm not saying Kobe is guilty. I have no idea what really happened on the night of June 30 at the Cordillera Lodge & Spa, and all Americans are innocent until proven guilty.


All Americans except for the female victim in this case, that is.


Since the news of Bryant's arrest broke two weeks ago, it seems like we've been searching for reasons to discredit this woman. She tried out for "American Idol" ... so she must be seeking fame and fortune. She went up to Bryant's room voluntarily ... so she was asking for it. She was an employee of the hotel ... so she was behaving unprofessionally. She allegedly overdosed on drugs two months ago ... so she must be unstable.


I only "know" one thing about this woman: Her life is never going to be the same again, and yet she's pressing on with this case anyway.


Rather than look for reasons to doubt her story, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt until someone can prove she's lying -- the same benefit of the doubt so many people, men in particular, seem so eager to give Kobe.


On Sunday morning, I bumped into a fellow sports journalist who offered the following word of warning to me about the Kobe case: "Man, be careful what you say about this case around women. I was at a party Saturday night, and all I said was, 'Kobe made a pretty big mistake,' and a couple of women still jumped all over me."


Well, sorry, guys, but I understand why so many women are so outraged. I also understand why so many rape victims never come forward.


If this case does indeed turn into a he-said, she-said, I'm not going to blindly assume everything he says is true. And I'd at least like to withhold my final judgment until I hear what she has to say.


Kevin Jackson is the coordinating editor for ESPN.com. His email address is kevin.jackson@espn3.com.
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  #66  
Old 07-22-2003, 10:13 AM
Lady Pi Phi Lady Pi Phi is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by James
I think rape is very much about sex and frustration . .. the feminists and some lawyers have tried to mek it about power because it changes the dynamic and makes it easier to argue a case.

If rape is about sex . . . well it gets less sympathy.
I disagree. I think men that commit rape get off on the power and control it give them to have forced themselves on someone.

On a side note: maybe this began as a consensual sexual encounter, but what if she asked him to stop and he didn't. If she told him No or to stop at anytime and he didn't, that's still sexual assult. No always means No.


P.S I am also NOT a feminist - I feel I need to add that disclaimer.
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  #67  
Old 07-22-2003, 10:15 AM
docetboy docetboy is offline
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Why do we care about celebrities so much!!!!???? Sure, what Kobe did was terrible, but you have to realize there have been 100 men probably since him charged on similar circumstances that noone cares about, though what they did was just as bad or worse...

Just food for thought.
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  #68  
Old 07-22-2003, 11:02 AM
Munchkin03 Munchkin03 is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
P.S I am also NOT a feminist - I feel I need to add that disclaimer.
What does it matter? I consider myself a pretty hardcore feminist (as in the classical definition, someone who wants equal rights for men and women), and I totally agreed with your statement.

I feel terrible for her--whether or not the allegations are true. Regardless of the outcome, she will continue to be dragged through the mud, villified and treated lower than dirt.
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  #69  
Old 07-22-2003, 11:13 AM
valkyrie valkyrie is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
P.S I am also NOT a feminist - I feel I need to add that disclaimer.
I'm just curious -- why did you feel the need to add that disclaimer? Is there something wrong with being a feminist? Would your words be taken any less seriously if you were a feminist, or if we didn't know if you were or not? Because you're not a feminist, are you entitled to more credibility?
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  #70  
Old 07-22-2003, 11:57 AM
Lady Pi Phi Lady Pi Phi is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by valkyrie
I'm just curious -- why did you feel the need to add that disclaimer? Is there something wrong with being a feminist? Would your words be taken any less seriously if you were a feminist, or if we didn't know if you were or not? Because you're not a feminist, are you entitled to more credibility?
It was in response to James' post that feminists and lawyers have decided to say that rape was about power (which I believe it is) just so that they can put away men.

I personaly don't like to be called a feminist. I have certain beliefs that might be labeled as feminist beliefs but I hate when I am labeled that. I do not think there is anything wrong with being a feminist, just don't call me that. Now I am not saying that James was personally calling me a feminist, I just didn't want it to start.

I don't think I have any more or any less credibility than the next person, it was a personal statement about me in regards to another post.
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  #71  
Old 07-22-2003, 12:32 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
I disagree. I think men that commit rape get off on the power and control it give them to have forced themselves on someone.
As usual, I will disclaim any real expertise in this area and say that this is an opinion only:

And mine is that both you (plus psychologists, etc) and James are partially right.

In some cases, rape is probably a power trip for the man. But I just can't think that some men don't think about power -- they're just so horny they go nuts.

It's reprehensible in either case. I just think sometimes the legal and medical professions make decisions and statements that are too all encompasing.
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  #72  
Old 07-22-2003, 12:46 PM
justamom justamom is offline
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Delt Alum-In some cases, rape is probably a power trip for the man. But I just can't think that some men don't think about power -- they're just so horny they go nuts.

Said it before on GC. This statement was told to me when I was about 24.

"A stiff d!ck has no conscience."

I DO NOT paint all men with the same brush...just thought this was sooo funny...it's kind of stuck in my head!
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  #73  
Old 07-22-2003, 02:02 PM
DeltAlum DeltAlum is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by justamom
[B]"A stiff d!ck has no conscience."
Uh, yeah. I've heard that, too.
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  #74  
Old 07-22-2003, 02:36 PM
enlightenment06 enlightenment06 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Buttonz
I agree! I thought that Kobe was one of the good guys but I guess not! (Then again, it's not like my fav. team has any angels on it...we do have Spreewell who is FAR from one!)
GO NY GO NY GO!!!

KNICKS ALL THE WAY!!!
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  #75  
Old 07-22-2003, 03:22 PM
Peaches-n-Cream Peaches-n-Cream is offline
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Kobe

Quote:
Originally posted by Munchkin03
What does it matter? I consider myself a pretty hardcore feminist (as in the classical definition, someone who wants equal rights for men and women), and I totally agreed with your statement.

I feel terrible for her--whether or not the allegations are true. Regardless of the outcome, she will continue to be dragged through the mud, villified and treated lower than dirt.
The word feminist has been so turned around that I can understand why a woman or man who has primarily feminist beliefs might be reluctant to define herself or himself as a such. To some people, feminism seems to be the belief that women are better than men or that women are inherently good and men are bad. I also have heard women say that they aren't feminists because they want to look pretty, wear make up, and shave their legs.

My definition of feminism includes equal rights for men and women and comparable pay for comparable work. Additionally, all people should be safe from violence, threats of violence, and sexual assault and harrassment. All people, not just women and girls. Feminism is about including women as equal partners in society not excluding or blaming men.
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