2nd Amendement Rights

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

The day guns are allowed on my campus is the day I quit my job.

And you aren't in the minority.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Let me throw this out: many counties in my state have mandatory weaponry classes in high schools, usually taught by members of the NRA. The students have the option of not going to the firing range (which is usually in the school itself), but they do need to know how to handle & clean a few types of guns correctly. Also, since these school districts are usually near where the Amish live, they are permitted to forego the class. One more thing I've noticed about these school districts is that drivers education is also mandatory.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are:

1. This is NRA propaganda. Does this training mean they can now bring a gun to high school? Guess not.

2. Gun practice is different than being prepared to shoot a human if need be. But they'll learn how to safely handle a gun and effectively shoot the hell out of a board or hunting target. Yeah.

3. Drivers education should be mandatory. Vehicle accidents are more common than mass gun shootings and gun assailants.

4. Speaking of gun assailants, gun assailants who are strangers are relatively rare so if that's what gun owners are waiting for--they need not hold their breaths. Gun violence resulting in death tends to be among family, friends, and close associates that people spend a substantial amount of time with. Thus, another reason why people shoot up their own places of employment and schools. But also why many law abiding citizens do not want to increase the gun access of nonsecurity officials in places of employment and schools.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

the "militia" as originally defined and understood were members of the civilian public who were not holding public office

And who could be called into military service.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Thus, another reason why people shoot up their own places of employment and schools. But also why many law abiding citizens do not want to increase the gun access of nonsecurity officials in places of employment and schools.

Increased gun access? Seriously, how many people do you think would legally carry to work AND THEN decide to kill everyone in their office? Do you honestly believe these gun free zones are keeping this from happening?

Training is the best we can do. If you think your average police officer is that much more prepared than your experienced and avid firearms enthusiast, you're sorely mistaken.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Increased gun access? Seriously, how many people do you think would legally carry to work AND THEN decide to kill everyone in their office? Do you honestly believe these gun free zones are keeping this from happening?

We've had this discussion already.

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Training is the best we can do. If you think your average police officer is that much more prepared than your experienced and avid firearms enthusiast, you're sorely mistaken.

"Avid firearms enthusiast" sounds fun as a hobby that you leave outside of work and school.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

We've had this discussion already.



"Avid firearms enthusiast" sounds fun as a hobby that you leave outside of work and school.

It is a fun hobby. It is also a very valuable skill to have in a dangerous world.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Let me throw this out: many counties in my state have mandatory weaponry classes in high schools, usually taught by members of the NRA. The students have the option of not going to the firing range (which is usually in the school itself), but they do need to know how to handle & clean a few types of guns correctly. Also, since these school districts are usually near where the Amish live, they are permitted to forego the class. One more thing I've noticed about these school districts is that drivers education is also mandatory.

Any thoughts?

The NRA has, because of its mission, developed an outstanding firearms safety program and an outstanding shooter education program. Just because they come from the NRA doesn't make them bad.

I do believe that students and/or their parents MUST have the right to opt out. Still, just as a student is taught very young that improper use of cars can be deadly - you don't stand in front of a moving car, you don't get behind the wheel without instruction, you don't touch a hot engine - so too should a student be taught that the improper use of guns can be deadly.

[DGTess]

DSTChaos, you have yet to provide any facts to back up any of your assertions.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DGTess

DSTChaos, you have yet to provide any facts to back up any of your assertions.

Way to call me out.

Don't know which assertions you're talking about. But I won't put time and effort into providing anything in this thread.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Way to call me out.

Don't know which assertions you're talking about. But I won't put time and effort into providing anything in this thread.

You have consistently, through this thread and the NIU shootings thread, made assertions that research shows this or that, or that colleges will not allow this or that. You have yet to back anything up.

I find many who fall back on rhetoric when they can't (or won't, as you say) provide facts. You appear to be saying it's wasting your time to go get facts. Too bad. Those who do research sometimes learn things.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DGTess

You appear to be saying it's wasting your time to go get facts. Too bad. Those who do research sometimes learn things.

Rightbackatcha.

I discuss the research from both sides of this debate, and others, everyday as part of my profession. I won't discuss it here and you'll just have to get over that.

But you should read up on both sides of the issue. Being married to one side of the debate shouldn't happen until you do that. I'm not anti-guns, which is obvious if you've read my posts, I just believe that it's not as simple as "every law abiding adult have gun access anywhere." My stance is an informed one based on the neutral research on the nature of violence and guns (because you can't understand this issue unless you understand violence, which is why most of my posts have discussed general violence and crime issues), as well as research from both sides of the gun control debate.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by DGTess

You have consistently, through this thread and the NIU shootings thread, made assertions that research shows this or that, or that colleges will not allow this or that. You have yet to back anything up.

And I just reread my 2 posts in this thread and realized that you exaggerated.

I did not mention "research" in this thread but moreso general info. If you do not know that you're more likely to get in a car accident than shot or that you're more likely to be victimized by someone you have more frequent interaction with than a stranger, you've missed out on basic info on crime and violence. And that would tell me that you've sensationalized the issue of violence and guns to fit your "pro-guns everywhere because the boogeyman may try to get you one day and you can shoot the boogeyman" stance.

I also know that many colleges won't allow guns in the classrooms because it's true because I'm psychic. As I said, SydneyK is not a minority when she says she will stop going to work if guns are allowed on campus.

[shinerbock]

Have no fear DGTess, I'm sure these criminals just aren't seeing the gun free zone signs. If we make them bigger, that should be enough to guarantee the safety of those law-abiding citizens who are left vulnerable by the law.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Have no fear DGTess, I'm sure these criminals just aren't seeing the gun free zone signs. If we make them bigger, that should be enough to guarantee the safety of those law-abiding citizens who are left vulnerable by the law.

Indeed.

It's this kind of fairy tale logic that makes these discussions null and void most of the time and not worth delving into the real substance behind the issue.

If guns were allowed on campuses, would would-be assailants also see huge gun zone signs that let them know whether a significant portion of people on that campus are actually taking advantage of their newfound right to have a gun during class?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Indeed.

It's this kind of fairy tale logic that makes these discussions null and void most of the time and not worth delving into the real substance behind the issue.

If guns were allowed on campuses, would would-be assailants also see huge gun zone signs that let them know whether a significant portion of people on that campus are actually taking advantage of their newfound right to have a gun during class?

I'm not worried about deterrence, as I've continually stated.