MySpace Hoax Victim Kills Herself

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Sadly the campus doctor was apparently an easy sell on an ADD diagnosis for students. This was not due to parents though, but smart students who knew how to fake the hyperactive behavior on the diagnostic survey so that they could get Ritalin to study with and share with their friends.

Exactly. This is what I've heard. A lot.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Exactly. This is what I've heard. A lot.

Unfortunately there's no other way to diagnose. There's some interesting information with CT scans showing a slower brain development, but that looked only at children and suggested that the brain eventually catches up. As a college student who first self-diagnosed and then went to my doctor at home who confirmed it, I'd have been pissed if I was looked at askance as if all I wanted were pills.

Of course, I'm not hyperactive so I don't get the "fun" meds anyway.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Exactly. This is what I've heard. A lot.

I can't believe that anyone would WANT to take that crap. I hated it. I felt like a zombie. Yes, my brain goes a million miles an hour, but I LIKE it like that. If anything - I selfmedicate with coffee and call it a day.

[AlethiaSi]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Of course, I'm not hyperactive so I don't get the "fun" meds anyway.

I'm not really hyperactive either, but my doctor gave me adderall and for the first time in my life, I could concentrate and focus! I'm not sure of the difference between ritalin and adderall, etc because I've only taken adderall. I also take anti-anxiety and anti-depressent meds for the last 5 years... I'm at my lowest dose now, and as a fully developed "adult" I have just as many ideations as I did as an teenager. However, though I do have episodes, this is something that I have struggled with since I can possibly ever remember.

Medication working with therapy is the most effective treatment for depression, because it is imperative that people (especially adolescents) build up the cognitive abilities to counteract the ideation and negative thinking. I think that is a piece of the puzzle that some people don't often include in therapy, even after all of these years and advancements in medication.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Here's how it was explained to me by several psych. professors:
First, teenagers are more likely to commit suicide in the first place. Blame the impulsiveness and lack of a fully formed brain.
Second, when you're really depressed you don't even have the energy to kill yourself.
Then you take medicine and in a few weeks you physically feel better, even though mentally you're still depressed. This is because it takes a while for the anti-depressants to build up in your system and really work.
The increase in suicides is tied to this time period where you're emotionally still in the dumps, but have more energy and are probably afraid that the medicine isn't going to help you because look, you're still depressed.
The same pattern occurs in adults who are medicated however they're more likely to "get" that the medicine takes time to work and overall less likely to kill themselves.

I'm sure your psych professors have a better handle than I do on the symptoms and information regarding the disease, and this sounds like a perfectly plausible etiology - however, this actually doesn't sever causation issues at all - in fact, this actually serves to enhance the causation portion, whereas most of the research will only find correlation.

So what's the conclusion? Should the kids be under lock and key until the "latency" period is over (I couldn't think of a better term there, it's pretty bad - sorry!)? I feel like these kids really need the help, but at what cost in terms of exposing them to a period of "danger" that may or may not be implicit in the treatment of the disease?

Maybe this should be another thread, but I'm not sure there's enough interest to break it out - still, it's interesting to me, and I doubt this will be the last high-profile case we hear about, unfortunately.

[AlphaFrog]

They should for sure be watched/monitored very closely when they first start their meds, but I believe the risk is very much worth it BECAUSE of that. When they start the meds, there's a more definite time when they're going to start to feel that upswing. When a depressed teenager is left unmedicated, there is a chance they'll start feeling better on their own at some random time and commit suicide. At least with the meds, you have a very definite time to watch them more carefully and intervene if help is needed.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

They should for sure be watched/monitored very closely when they first start their meds, but I believe the risk is very much worth it BECAUSE of that. When they start the meds, there's a more definite time when they're going to start to feel that upswing. When a depressed teenager is left unmedicated, there is a chance they'll start feeling better on their own at some random time and commit suicide. At least with the meds, you have a very definite time to watch them more carefully and intervene if help is needed.

I'm not sure the time is all that well defined, to be honest, and I think that's my main issue - as far as "careful monitoring" I would imagine most parents already think they are doing this . . . so I was kind of asking, in effect, what more can actually be done, if anything?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I'm sure your psych professors have a better handle than I do on the symptoms and information regarding the disease, and this sounds like a perfectly plausible etiology - however, this actually doesn't sever causation issues at all - in fact, this actually serves to enhance the causation portion, whereas most of the research will only find correlation.

So what's the conclusion? Should the kids be under lock and key until the "latency" period is over (I couldn't think of a better term there, it's pretty bad - sorry!)? I feel like these kids really need the help, but at what cost in terms of exposing them to a period of "danger" that may or may not be implicit in the treatment of the disease?

Maybe this should be another thread, but I'm not sure there's enough interest to break it out - still, it's interesting to me, and I doubt this will be the last high-profile case we hear about, unfortunately.

Well it's not that they actually cause suicidal ideation, but that the effects allow a suicidal individual to more easily kill him or herself.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

They should for sure be watched/monitored very closely when they first start their meds, but I believe the risk is very much worth it BECAUSE of that. When they start the meds, there's a more definite time when they're going to start to feel that upswing. When a depressed teenager is left unmedicated, there is a chance they'll start feeling better on their own at some random time and commit suicide. At least with the meds, you have a very definite time to watch them more carefully and intervene if help is needed.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I'm not sure the time is all that well defined, to be honest, and I think that's my main issue - as far as "careful monitoring" I would imagine most parents already think they are doing this . . . so I was kind of asking, in effect, what more can actually be done, if anything?

Making parents aware that there is this increased chance of suicide, but also that the longer the child is on the medication the more that decreases so it's important that they know the medicine (for the majority) does help. Educating the teenagers as well and providing as many supports for them as possible both within the family and without. Lock and key isn't necessarily needed - although suicidal people can generally be held for 72 hours if necessary, but teens don't generally kill themselves when family is around.

[sageofages]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

. . . and this is exactly illustrative of the point I was trying to make.

There is evidence the blog is not, in fact, Lori Drew. So . . . yeah - let's wait to find out if it really is hers, before we pile on any more?

If in fact the blog is a "hoax" perpetrated against Lori Drew...for the hoax she perpetrated against Megan...

It would seem to be a collosal bit of karmic justice, would it not?

Be careful what you say and do in life to others, as fate has a big old way of bring it back to bite you in the @ss!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

I'm not really hyperactive either, but my doctor gave me adderall and for the first time in my life, I could concentrate and focus! I'm not sure of the difference between ritalin and adderall, etc because I've only taken adderall. I also take anti-anxiety and anti-depressent meds for the last 5 years... I'm at my lowest dose now, and as a fully developed "adult" I have just as many ideations as I did as an teenager. However, though I do have episodes, this is something that I have struggled with since I can possibly ever remember.

Medication working with therapy is the most effective treatment for depression, because it is imperative that people (especially adolescents) build up the cognitive abilities to counteract the ideation and negative thinking. I think that is a piece of the puzzle that some people don't often include in therapy, even after all of these years and advancements in medication.

You know, I've always wondered how I'd be on stims instead of the Strattera. (Adderal and Ritalin AFAIK work essentially the same way). My brother takes Concerta and every now and then I just sit there and wonder... would those work better? But at the same time, I really don't want to have to deal with being unable to get more than X number of pills in X number of days and all the controlled substance issues that stims have these days.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Well it's not that they actually cause suicidal ideation, but that the effects allow a suicidal individual to more easily kill him or herself.

I was being a bit more obtuse than this - I meant "causation" for the actual suicide, not the suicidal ideation - but point taken.

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Making parents aware that there is this increased chance of suicide, but also that the longer the child is on the medication the more that decreases so it's important that they know the medicine (for the majority) does help. Educating the teenagers as well and providing as many supports for them as possible both within the family and without. Lock and key isn't necessarily needed - although suicidal people can generally be held for 72 hours if necessary, but teens don't generally kill themselves when family is around.

See, this is a long-hand description of what already happens (or should happen), and it seems somewhat idyllic - meanwhile, the problem still persists to the point where it is statistically significant among all ages, and more prevalent among teens.

So I'm wondering if there's more beyond this than can be done, and any thoughts on why this isn't done (or successful) to the extent we would like it to be.

[LaneSig]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/LIVING/wayof....ap/index.html

CNN article. The family that targeted Megan is being shunned by neighbors. They have also received some threats.

Mom still claims that she told her daughter and her employee to only leave 'nice messages' for Megan. Anyone believe her?

[33girl]

"I just really hope that no one comes out here and does something insane," Buckles said. "If they do, I hope they get the right house."

I know this is a horrid situation and this guy isn't trying to be funny...but he kind of was.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know this is a horrid situation and this guy isn't trying to be funny...but he kind of was.

I laughed, but I'm kind of morbid and possibly a bad person - I would probably feel exactly the same if I'm that guy, though, too.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Ok, seriously. Who is this fool posting either random non sequiturs or just inane/trolly responses all over the place? Is this a situation where we can call in a Mod or do we just have to ignore and hope it slithers away?

Did he just add the signature? Because I'm totally amused.